8) AGAINST THE "HARM NONE DO WHAT YE WILL" (antichrist teaching)OBJECTION: Some people are not fit to be parents.
The story of Lazarus (from LUKE 16)
HEAVEN AND EARTH SHALL MORE EASILY PASS AWAY, THAN ONE
TITTLE OF THE LAW...

Jesus said:
There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine
linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his
gate, full of sores,

And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's
table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to
pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into
Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham
afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

And he cried and said, "Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send
Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my
tongue; for I am tormented in this flame."

But Abraham said, "Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst
thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is
comforted, and thou art tormented.
And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so
that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they
pass to us, that would come from thence."

Then he said, "I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send
him to my father's house:For I have five brethren; that he may testify
unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment."

Abraham saith unto him, "They have Moses and the prophets; let them
hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto
them from the dead, they will repent."

And he said unto him, "If they hear not Moses and the prophets,
neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."

Lets consider the many doctrines and meanings of this scripture
passage.

1)it proves the need for charity (love of neighbor) rather than just
"tolerance".

2)it shows that without the growth of charity in our lives, it is
impossible to enter Heaven.

3) it reminds us of the existance of angels who help the poor and
meek,and that God cares for those who the world forgets.

4)it proves that Christ taught that the ancient patriarchs, Jews like
Abraham and others, could be with God in bliss.

5) it teaches that after Death one's choice for or against God cannot be
changed.

6) it teaches that contentment in this life is risky, especially when
many are suffering.

7) it warns the reality of the Last Judgement.

8) it teaches that the Old Testament(Moses and the prophets) is just
as important for Truth as the New Testament. Those who ignore the
Old Testament will be at pains to believe the Resurrection.

9) it would be better to be the dog licking his sores than be the rich
man.

9) DOMINION OF GOD
1) Essential dominion. It was not necessary that God should draw me
from nothing. But since God has created me, it is necessary that I
should be His.

2)Supreme dominion. I belong to God before everything, and above
everything. Properly speaking, I belong to God alone, and men have no
other rights over me except such as God has given them. Their rights,
then, are subordinate to the rights of God; and their authority must
always be subjected to the authority of God.

3) Absolute dominion. God can dispose of me according to his pleasure;
He can give or take from me fortune, health, honor, life; my duty is to
recieve every thing from His hand with submission and without
complaint.

4)Universal dominion. everything in me is from God; therefore all in me
belongs to God. The dominion of the Lord extends to all stages of my
life, to all the situations I may be placed, to all the faculties of my
soul, all the senses of my body, to every hour and moment of my
existance.

5) Eternal dominion. The dominion of God is immortal, like myself; it
begins with time, and continues through eternity; death, which deprives
men of all their rights, is unable to do anything against the rights of
God.

6) Irresistible dominion. We may escape the dominion of men; but how
escape the dominion of God? Willing or unwilling, we must submit to it;
we must live under the empire of His Love, or under the that of His
justice; either glorify His power by free obedience, or glorify it by
inevitable punishment.
"O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed
say to him that formed it, why hast thou made me thus? (Rom. xi 20)

So apart from the condescending irrational biblical gibberish you have quoted did you have any sort of intelligent comment to make?

Unfortunately, Lawdog has failed to describe the source of the objection provided. His ambition to attack the Rede as inherently antichristian has caused him to make an irresponsible claim. After all, he apparently thinks everyone should reproduce. I should have nine daughters so I can keep them in a harem for me ... that sort of thing. Without any source for the objection, we have no interpretation of the objection, and nothing by which to measure his response. The result of that is that people who want to keep their daughters as a harem are apparently fit parentage.

However, Lawdog was kind enough as to riddle his rantings with assertions that prove occasionally hilarious, considering the philosophies and active manifestations of philosophies we see associated with the christ/antichrist obsession:1)it proves the need for charity (love of neighbor) rather than just "tolerance". In the modern day, religions of the Bible have largely failed on both counts. In American society, we seek tolerance only because there is no forced obligation to be kind to your neighbor. In theory, this allows people do discover the legitimate reasons that human compassion and human kindness, instead of dwell on how to make an obligation to others more advantageous to myself, which concept results in untamed greed allegedly justified by God's authority. However, being that our cultural expression has largely been restricted to portions of the population where Bible-religion is to be found, we see the primary social trend toward profit by kindness, or, take my advantage by telling you I'm being kind; stealing from you while telling you I'm making you richer; beating you while telling you I'm healing you; hurting you while I say I love you. This is what happens when one sacrifices the intellect and chooses to learn nothing genuine.2)it shows that without the growth of charity in our lives, it is impossible to enter Heaven. As I noted above: kindness by obligation. How does one enter Heaven by seeking it? If one selects one's own actions to maximize one's chances of getting into Heaven, one is plotting to deceive God with charity that is not genuine. This is called greed, and has made people so thirsty for Heaven over the centuries that they will violate the commandments while telling someone it's for their own good: Hey, Lawdog, whatever happened to Thou shalt not kill? Oh, wait ... wait. Sorry, I forgot that you approve of murder to get into Heaven. 3) it reminds us of the existance of angels who help the poor and
meek,and that God cares for those who the world forgets.The only reason angels should intervene is because there's not enough charity, and therefore none to become angels. Looks like you missed again, Lawdog. Even in angelic form, Mother Teresa can't do it all. Heck, even your God can't do it all; else it would be taken care of.4)it proves that Christ taught that the ancient patriarchs, Jews like Abraham and others, could be with God in bliss. I think everybody with an operating cognitive cell can see what's wrong with that. Such ideas as these are limited specifically to persons like yourself, Lawdog when dwelling on how best to achieve your own salvation. You can't get there like that, and you know it.5) it teaches that after Death one's choice for or against God cannot be changed. Hopefully, Lawdog, you have plenty of time to get that straightened out. Of course, such a belief would explain the infantile nature of arguments made by so many Christian adults: knowing that one cannot change their opinion of God after they die, one chooses to set that opinion as early as possible, against any accidental (yeah, right, if it's by God's will) death. In this case, one can no longer afford to revise one's opinion of God during life, lest they pass from Earth (by God's will) before resolving one or two critical issues, thus effecting their condemnation. But we all know that as described in the Bible, Lawdog, your form of obsession with salvation won't get you there.6) it teaches that contentment in this life is risky, especially when many are suffering. Contentment is also one of the things which allows certain forms of innovations. Necessity, it is said, is the Mother of Invention. The only problem with building on the fly is that the result addresses only the immediately-relevant issues, and does not necessarily have any other application. This creates a limiting of ideas that, when spanning generations, exscinds much from the recognized Universe and creates predictable templates for human responsive behavior. To the other, there is a form of innovation that comes from contentment. By nature, contentment is a transitory spirit. That contentment is restless, and seeks validation. We find ways of giving to people things they need, instead of thinks we have to give, so that both the giver and the receiver are benefitted. If what I give is relevant to my immediate concerns creating necessity, then what I give may not be relevant to the one who receives. From the restless contentment, I may better see what is relevant to another's necessity, and thus provide such relevant something in an act of will and not of obligation.

Let me address here a possible objection to the above: If you think that total contentment involves never worrying about others again, it's your own psyche that thinks that. No living moment is ever truly content until the achievement of Utopia, Kingdom of God, Harmonic Oneness, or a number of other expressions of human perfection toward which we all, in our own way, aspire. If one would accuse that the content have no reason to give, such a notion reflects only the conscience of the accuser, who fears such behavior in their own self. But such selfishness comes from an obsession toward the necessary.7) it warns the reality of the Last Judgement. Hey, if you want to believe that, go ahead, Lawdog. After all, what could possibly be more important than what God thinks of you? :rolleyes: 8) it teaches that the Old Testament(Moses and the prophets) is just
as important for Truth as the New Testament. Those who ignore the
Old Testament will be at pains to believe the Resurrection.That's a nice comfortable assumption of faith, isn't it? In reality, it must be that way else Christians could not usurp the Judaic covenant. It's a political convention to legitimize early Christianity in the eyes of its Judaic neighbors the Christians so readily slandered in their appeals to the Roman government: with nothing else to stand on, the Christians said, "Hey, at least we're not Jews." 9) it would be better to be the dog licking his sores than be the rich man. Sure. Whatever you say. When I'm the rich man I can afford to buy vaccinations, inoculations, and whatever else is needed to keep a community healthy. It's part of my responsibility to the human race. I can even afford to help people keep their kitties and puppies healthy, so that there needs be no licking of anyone's sores whatsoever. Sure, it's a lofty vision, but it beats waking up in the morning, figuring out who's throat I can cut to advance my chances for salvation.

Lawdog, of your Dominion tantrum, let me just say that at least we know what your religion finds important. Can you imagine humankind trying to advance under such conditions? With such a negative outlook on the natural universe, death and destruction is the only thing that can result. This is why many people find Christianity dangerous. In order to attract converts, you have to convince them that they're horrible people. Lesser-educated people are more prone to accept this, given the connection 'twixt education and quality of life. Thus we see Christianity appealing politically to the lowest educational strata: in the 1980s we complained about schools focusing on the Least Common Denominator of student intelligence; that is, catering to the lowest scores. Here we see Christianity creating conditions whereby that is the group of persons most likely to convert. And this, perhaps, is why such irresponsible, ill-constructed, violence-encouraging theology exists today and affects so many people.

And Lawdog ... you're a banner-boy for bad religion. Thank you; I needed the exercise today. But you're making it so basic and easy that I still think you're a provocateur.

--Tiassa :cool:

tiassa, yes you're in good form today. Since my recent move into management I've found my time has been severely curtailed which has limited my ability to contribute more fully to the board. Not that I have ever been able to achieve the depth and penetration exibited by your texts. Keep going, I enjoy being inspired.

Cris

The Truth of Christ is like the Sea, permanant and unyeilding to Man's desires. No matter what machinations and devices you use to rid the Sea of its water, nothing will suffice to empty the Sea. Surely, God's Truth is more permanant than the Sea, which shall pass away, but "tho Heavan and Earth pass away, my words shall never pass away" (Christ)

Holy Mother Church and her Traditions is the work of God and his Saints, not that of men, regardless of what may seem to those outsiders of no understanding. Our Faith is universal and for all people, your final happiness resides in her bosom alone.

This causes you frustration, being unable to undo what cannot be undone. Thus it is best to yeild your spirit, for "every knee in Heaven and Earth shall bend and proclaim the Lord is God".

Do this by seeking the grace of conversion from God in prayer, beseeching Mary our help, the very Mother of God, for this is a singular precious grace worth more than all the universe.

This reminds me of a silly lesson my mother used to stress, about the bad kids who smoked or drank their parents' whiskey. They wanted other people to do it with them (e.g. us, the good kids) in order to make themselves feel better about breaking the rules and hurting themselves.

Judgementalism of that aside, I wonder if the Christian need to convince others to sacrifice their intellect is a last gasp of a Christian conscience begging for either help or companionship. It must be terrible to be alone with only delusions of salvation to keep you company.

--Tiassa :cool:

Lawdog,

If the Rede is an antichrist teaching, then the opposite of the Rede would be Christian teaching, yes? In honor of <b>Father's</b> Day, allow me to include a few of my favorite examples of Christian teachings here:


<font color="red">Matthew 8:21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my <b>father</b>.

Matthew 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.


Matthew 19:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or <b>father</b>, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.


Matthew 23:9 And call no man your <b>father</b> upon the earth: for one is your <b>Father</b>, which is in heaven.


Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his <b>father</b>, and mother, and wife, and children,and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.</font>

As inspiring as Christians apparently find these teachings to be, forgive me if I choose to continue honoring the Rede. Oh, and by the way, happy <b>Father's</b> Day, Lawdog.

Emerald

The curious thing is that I have severe reservations about my own family; my father taught me bad principles encouraging me to hurt people in a quest of personal wealth and security (to the other, my mother was complicit in her general acceptance of such principles, though her nature tended to blindly contradict him with... well, she wasn't conscious enough of the process for me to say it was or willful.)

To the other, holidays are the end of my principles; every commercial boycott I've ever declared (China :rolleyes:, Disney, Starbucks--though not the current boycott, Nike, ad nauseam) with the giving of gifts. They don't respect my principles, want to talk about cutthroat ways of living, and wonder constantly why I'm so unhappy around them.

I would like to think that if anything compels me to cut these people out of my life, it will be the invitation of their personal intolerances. Why I should choose to leave them behind for such a stupid and ludicrous and hateful God as one who would destroy a family in search of individual fidelity, I cannot fathom.

As much as my family annoys me by asking me to live according to unkind principles, I would not leave them behind simply because God doesn't feel secure in his masculinity. ;)

How can we get along without a sense of family? Yet God would steal that fundamental human power from us? Of course, what with that kingdom obsession and all, I'm not entirely sure God wants humanity to survive on this planet. And therein lies a loving message for Fathers' Day: To love or hate your father means your redemption beyond this life.

My editorial comment is that this is what we should expect of redemptive religions.

But thank you for the notes on fatherhood and family.

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:

Tiassa,

Originally posted by tiassa
The curious thing is that I have severe reservations about my own family; my father taught me bad principles encouraging me to hurt people in a quest of personal wealth and security (to the other, my mother was complicit in her general acceptance of such principles, though her nature tended to blindly contradict him with... well, she wasn't conscious enough of the process for me to say it was or willful.)

I'm sorry to hear about your relationship with your family - I've had similar problems with mine. My father used to loudly and adamantly advise me to hit people over the head with a baseball bat if they hurt me or upset me in any way (as if I could simply pull one out of my back pocket when the occasion required it :rolleyes: ). He would actually become furious with me upon learning that I had not followed this prescribed course of action. I quickly learned not to tell my father anything regarding my personal disputes. However, I am as baffled as you are by a religion that actively promotes bad will between family members as Christianity does. :confused:

As much as my family annoys me by asking me to live according to unkind principles, I would not leave them behind simply because God doesn't feel secure in his masculinity. ;)

Ah, perhaps this insecurity explains the following verse:

<font color="red">Matthew 19:12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.</font> :eek:

But then I guess that would render the whole fatherhood problem a non-issue, huh? ;)

Emerald

Tiassa,

This may not be the appropriate thread for my question, but you mentioned something about Mother Teresa in one of your posts above, and it triggered a memory of a book that I heard about (but haven't read yet). It's called "The Missionary Position: Mother Teresa in Theory and Practice," by Christopher Hitchens. Have you heard of it? Following is an editorial review which can be found at amazon.com:

<font color="green">What's next--The Girl Scouts: The Untold Story? How could anybody write a debunking book about Mother Teresa and her Missionaries of Charity order? Well, in this little cruise missile of a book, Hitchens quickly establishes that the idea is not without point. After all, what is Mother Teresa doing hanging out with a dictator's wife in Haiti and accepting over a million dollars from Charles Keating? The most riveting material in the book is contained in two letters: one from Mother Teresa to Judge Lance Ito--then weighing what sentence to dole out to the convicted Keating--which cited all the work Keating has done "to help the poor," and another from a Los Angeles deputy D.A., Paul Turley, back to Mother Teresa that eloquently stated that rather than working to reduce Keating's sentence, she should return the money he gave her to its rightful owners, the defrauded bond-holders. (Significantly, Mother Teresa never replied.) And why do former missionary workers and visiting doctors consistently observe that the order's medical practices seem so inadequate, especially given all the money that comes in? (Hitchens acidly observes that on the other hand, Mother Teresa herself always manages to receive world-class medical care.) Hitchens's answer is that Mother Teresa is first and foremost interested not in providing medical treatment, but in furthering Catholic doctrine and--quite literally--becoming a saint.</font>

Have you (or anyone else) read this book? If so, do you recommend it? Have you heard these charges against Mother Teresa before? Is there a book out that counters these charges?

Thanks,

Emerald

If I hide behind my sunglasses, it's to keep my eyes in my skull.

To the other, attempting to be somewhat pragmatic ... yeah, I'll just stay behind my sunglasses for now.

It wouldn't surprise me.

I would hope it isn't so.

Then again, we all know that God's dead, anyway, so we might as well milk the sad adherents for all the social benefit we can. In the meantime? Hey, stealing from the American economy is, technically, okay. I fully support the Brazilian patent stance forcing American companies to reduce the cost of life-saving drugs. A million here and a million there? Keating got away with much, much worse.

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:

The 'spirit' of The Anti-Christ is at work in this world of the lost and confused, perverted generations! Dangerous doctrines are being taught in schools. Damnable heresies are on this site!
Beware the Deceiver (Devil) is on the prowl and will devour the weak !

All of you who know not GOD will shortly come face to face with the God you thought did not exist and will be terrified at His very appearing! " It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the Living GOD!" Jesus forgives! Jesus saves!

Beware the ANTI-Christ! The man of Sin! Who will one day set himself up, and to say he is GOD! But is the Devil himself in codnito! Beware!:mad:

Originally posted by tiassa
Unfortunately, Lawdog has failed to describe the source of the objection provided. His ambition to attack the Rede as inherently antichristian has caused him to make an irresponsible claim. After all, he apparently thinks everyone should reproduce. I should have nine daughters so I can keep them in a harem for me ... that sort of thing. Without any source for the objection, we have no interpretation of the objection, and nothing by which to measure his response. The result of that is that people who want to keep their daughters as a harem are apparently fit parentage.

However, Lawdog was kind enough as to riddle his rantings with assertions that prove occasionally hilarious, considering the philosophies and active manifestations of philosophies we see associated with the christ/antichrist obsession:In the modern day, religions of the Bible have largely failed on both counts. In American society, we seek tolerance only because there is no forced obligation to be kind to your neighbor. In theory, this allows people do discover the legitimate reasons that human compassion and human kindness, instead of dwell on how to make an obligation to others more advantageous to myself, which concept results in untamed greed allegedly justified by God's authority. However, being that our cultural expression has largely been restricted to portions of the population where Bible-religion is to be found, we see the primary social trend toward profit by kindness, or, take my advantage by telling you I'm being kind; stealing from you while telling you I'm making you richer; beating you while telling you I'm healing you; hurting you while I say I love you. This is what happens when one sacrifices the intellect and chooses to learn nothing genuine.As I noted above: kindness by obligation. How does one enter Heaven by seeking it? If one selects one's own actions to maximize one's chances of getting into Heaven, one is plotting to deceive God with charity that is not genuine. This is called greed, and has made people so thirsty for Heaven over the centuries that they will violate the commandments while telling someone it's for their own good: Hey, Lawdog, whatever happened to Thou shalt not kill? Oh, wait ... wait. Sorry, I forgot that you approve of murder to get into Heaven. The only reason angels should intervene is because there's not enough charity, and therefore none to become angels. Looks like you missed again, Lawdog. Even in angelic form, Mother Teresa can't do it all. Heck, even your God can't do it all; else it would be taken care of.I think everybody with an operating cognitive cell can see what's wrong with that. Such ideas as these are limited specifically to persons like yourself, Lawdog when dwelling on how best to achieve your own salvation. You can't get there like that, and you know it.Hopefully, Lawdog, you have plenty of time to get that straightened out. Of course, such a belief would explain the infantile nature of arguments made by so many Christian adults: knowing that one cannot change their opinion of God after they die, one chooses to set that opinion as early as possible, against any accidental (yeah, right, if it's by God's will) death. In this case, one can no longer afford to revise one's opinion of God during life, lest they pass from Earth (by God's will) before resolving one or two critical issues, thus effecting their condemnation. But we all know that as described in the Bible, Lawdog, your form of obsession with salvation won't get you there.Contentment is also one of the things which allows certain forms of innovations. Necessity, it is said, is the Mother of Invention. The only problem with building on the fly is that the result addresses only the immediately-relevant issues, and does not necessarily have any other application. This creates a limiting of ideas that, when spanning generations, exscinds much from the recognized Universe and creates predictable templates for human responsive behavior. To the other, there is a form of innovation that comes from contentment. By nature, contentment is a transitory spirit. That contentment is restless, and seeks validation. We find ways of giving to people things they need, instead of thinks we have to give, so that both the giver and the receiver are benefitted. If what I give is relevant to my immediate concerns creating necessity, then what I give may not be relevant to the one who receives. From the restless contentment, I may better see what is relevant to another's necessity, and thus provide such relevant something in an act of will and not of obligation.

Let me address here a possible objection to the above: If you think that total contentment involves never worrying about others again, it's your own psyche that thinks that. No living moment is ever truly content until the achievement of Utopia, Kingdom of God, Harmonic Oneness, or a number of other expressions of human perfection toward which we all, in our own way, aspire. If one would accuse that the content have no reason to give, such a notion reflects only the conscience of the accuser, who fears such behavior in their own self. But such selfishness comes from an obsession toward the necessary. Hey, if you want to believe that, go ahead, Lawdog. After all, what could possibly be more important than what God thinks of you? :rolleyes: That's a nice comfortable assumption of faith, isn't it? In reality, it must be that way else Christians could not usurp the Judaic covenant. It's a political convention to legitimize early Christianity in the eyes of its Judaic neighbors the Christians so readily slandered in their appeals to the Roman government: with nothing else to stand on, the Christians said, "Hey, at least we're not Jews." Sure. Whatever you say. When I'm the rich man I can afford to buy vaccinations, inoculations, and whatever else is needed to keep a community healthy. It's part of my responsibility to the human race. I can even afford to help people keep their kitties and puppies healthy, so that there needs be no licking of anyone's sores whatsoever. Sure, it's a lofty vision, but it beats waking up in the morning, figuring out who's throat I can cut to advance my chances for salvation.

Lawdog, of your Dominion tantrum, let me just say that at least we know what your religion finds important. Can you imagine humankind trying to advance under such conditions? With such a negative outlook on the natural universe, death and destruction is the only thing that can result. This is why many people find Christianity dangerous. In order to attract converts, you have to convince them that they're horrible people. Lesser-educated people are more prone to accept this, given the connection 'twixt education and quality of life. Thus we see Christianity appealing politically to the lowest educational strata: in the 1980s we complained about schools focusing on the Least Common Denominator of student intelligence; that is, catering to the lowest scores. Here we see Christianity creating conditions whereby that is the group of persons most likely to convert. And this, perhaps, is why such irresponsible, ill-constructed, violence-encouraging theology exists today and affects so many people.

And Lawdog ... you're a banner-boy for bad religion. Thank you; I needed the exercise today. But you're making it so basic and easy that I still think you're a provocateur.

--Tiassa :cool:

Tiassa: Did you and others not know that every word you wright or speak will be accounted for at the Great White Throne of Judgement? And ye will be eating every word when standing alone before GOD?! Seeing your whole life on a cosmic jumbotron screen? And all secrets ever committed?! Jesus is the only one that can change that picture, but only on this side of eternity! Jesus saves! You will one day come to Him, if not , then He will be your Judge! Beware the Anti-Christ!

Did you and others not know that every word you wright or speak will be accounted for at the Great White Throne of Judgement?Well, here's the thing with that, Loone: If you're right and there's a God and Jesus, I'd say my interpretation of what God wants of me has about as even a shot as the next. For instance, I'm not out behaving like Jesus' hypocrite.

Just make sure you're right about what your God really is before you go out and practice black magick.t know that every word you wright or speak will be accounted for at the Great White Throne of Judgement? And ye will be eating every word when standing alone before GOD?! Seeing your whole life on a cosmic jumbotron screen? And all secrets ever committed?!On the one hand, that would suck no matter what. To the other, it's not so rough--spend your childhood alienated, and that sort of cudgeling is, well, eighth grade.

And think about this, to yet another: By the occasion of my birth and the circumstances God put before me, he has managed my data set. Sure, there's a sense of free will, but if I never vacation in Kabul to increase my cultural awareness, it is because that limited data set demands other priorities. For one who Knows All, as God is alleged to, the result of this is no surprise. Hence, I have no fear of Judgement for that which the Lord hath bestowed upon me.

See? This is the problem with gutter theology: it's too easy. Some "brilliant" Christian thinkers spent their whole lives wrangling out these questions. But the data set some of us receive as a result of our intellectual liberty basically demonstrates the hidden possibilities of the religion as naked as your birth.

And, furthermore, since Christians can't agree on what happens to those rejected by their Creator, well, a number of things arise. Primarily, that we are as God makes us, and need fear no wrath, or perhaps that God knows the whole thing's a sham.

You'd think God would have been specific about the nature of his rejection, but there doesn't seem to be much consensus, except that God hates us because he made us imperfect, but that was on purpose so what's the effing point?Beware the Anti-Christ!You and your militaristic breed are the Anti-Christ. Waerloga. Period.

--Tiassa :cool:

Emerald,

I haven't read the book yet but I watched a TV documentary last year that described all that you have said. It would seem that Mother Teressa is quite surprisingly worldly and quite aware of modern business practices.

Yes I agree, she cannot be the saintly type we have been led to believe.

Cris

I've seen snipits of the same program Cris is talking about. It certainly appears that she isn't the person we are all led to believe she is....however she's about as christain as they come horns and all, so as far as christain sait hood goes she's right up there in the running, along with all the genocidal physco's and petaphiles the church has managed to nurture.

2.2 cents (GST inc).

Dear Loone,

I do not know what type of Christian you are, but one thing shall be certain, we are running the race like St. Paul if we practice what you preach, and shall win the crown of victory provided that we endure. I exhort you to great strivings in Holiness and recommend a half hour scripture a day.

Thank you for helping spread the Truth of our Holy Faith.

It is so obvious: Antichrist is probably already here! Just reading all this trash confirms all that is written in prophecy is NOW even more than it ever was, especially about those with itching ears.

I will pray for you in our seminary,
LAWDOG

I do not know what type of Christian you are, but one thing shall be certain, we are running the race like St. Paul if we practice what you preach, and shall win the crown of victory provided that we endure. I exhort you to great strivings in Holiness and recommend a half hour scripture a day.

Thank you for helping spread the Truth of our Holy Faith.

It is so obvious: Antichrist is probably already here! Just reading all this trash confirms all that is written in prophecy is NOW even more than it ever was, especially about those with itching ears. This affirmation has been brought to you by the Sacrifice of the Intellect.

Hey ... talk to the Mother Church about that: I ain't makin' it up, boys and girls.

--Tiassa :cool:

Look out Tiassa, the Anti-Christ is the one you would except, but he will turn out to be the BIGGEST MONSTER the world will ever know! Like Bill Clinton, he maybe charming and sophisticated and good looking and a superb politician. But he would be possessed by the Devil himself, and will plunge the whole world into Armageddon!! He will be far more merciless then Hitler or anyone else in human history! Do not take of the mark of the Beast, or the number of his name!! Or you will be lost forever!! Warning!! This is true!! Jesus is your only hope!:eek:

Did God created Devil? Or Devil is something that even God can't control?

Did God allows Devil to corrupt men? Or God allows us to be corrupted by Devil?

Tiassa,

I’ve just spent about an hour drafting and re-drafting a response to Loone’s latest comedy post. It ranged from my preferred perfect politeness to outright laughter. But each time I reviewed my text I tried to predict the probable response, and then I realized that there are no reasoned arguments that can be directed at someone who has only a single extremely narrow train of thought and who has no comprehension of the meaning of debate or reason. My conclusion is that anything directed at Loone specifically is a waste of time – he is a lost cause and not worthy of direct attention. So instead I’ve targeted you, as that is always productive.

However, he does represent a group of fundamentalist fanatics that at some time will have to be addressed before they become militant and dangerous to everyone. So there is definitely some merit to a debate of his rantings. I know you have addressed the anti-christ and devil mythologies before and at some length so I don’t expect a regurgitation here. And really, I am more interested in how one should deal with unfortunate people like Loone, rather than attempting to analyze his meaningless notions and fantasy dreams.

I have significant respect for many Christians who admit they have no proofs for their beliefs and who show reasonable tolerance for the ideas and beliefs of others, but Loone is very different. He appears to have been completely mesmerized and seemingly ‘possessed’ (seemed appropriate) by severe delusional fantasies. And he seems unaware of the realities that surround him. What do you think it would take to break through his mental aberration and reach the intellect that might exist? Clearly he would never voluntarily submit to psychiatric examination since he is at this time unaware that he is sick. And since he has no understanding of reason then it follows that there is no point in attempting to reason with him. So I am at a loss as to how one can help such poor unfortunates. Perhaps they should be discreetly ignored, but there remains that danger that they might become militant. So what to do, what to do?

Loone does seem to be representative of those fire and brimstone preachers of the past, who I thought had died out centuries ago. Although, the televangelists, appear very similar. Did you know that I had never seen televangelism until I first visited the USA back in the 1980s. For the first few minutes it appeared very similar to typical British comedy sketches, like Monty Python, and then I realized that these people were serious. I at once found that very sad and at the same time one of the most hilarious insights I had ever experienced. But I did assume, as would most Europeans that such cranks were harmless and must exist only on the extreme fringe of American life. I was working with a Christian couple at the time and I asked their opinions on such TV shows, and they simply admitted their embarrassment of such things, I found that reassuring and strengthened my belief that most Americans do exercise common sense and are not easily duped by such creepy and repugnant TV shows.

Comments welcome of course.

Cris

Cris--

You are too kind, sir.

It's worth mentioning that this is exactly how Tony1 got so far under my skin that I tried to knock a mountain down on him. At the time, I actually let it get to me, that manner in which certain people flat ignored everything you just wrote. I've always made the joke that my specific portion of my generation (25-35) was so greatly influenced by Harrison Ford's portrayal of Han Solo and, later, Indiana Jones, that we adopted much of the outward presentation because it was the coolest thing we'd ever seen. These days I find my contemporaries so dry that they flake away like a bad lotion commercial. We who suffered this behavioral malady as children never took it so far. There was always a point, if only to get a rise out of someone. I think Lyndale is like that sometimes ... (Wouldn't want anyone to think you're believing ... What the hell is that?) ... but he usually writes coherent enough posts that there's usually quite a bit to respond to. In the present case, I don't think so; however, to bury the glee that would motivate such abrasiveness or willful apathy would lend toward psychiatric considerations. Redemptive religion, by its very focus on the self, creates a very internalized perspective; I quit Christianity--you'd think I remember the day specifically, though August 29, 1988, stands out somewhat, but I could blather on about being 15--at 13 or 14 it seems. I'm 28 and I still haven't shaken off the need to compare the self against itself and chew myself senseless from time to time. I can definitely envision it producing neurosis or psychosis; internalization is a contributing factor to my own psychiatric condition, and nobody who is not suffering denial claims I'm healthy upstairs. (Strangely, nobody thinks I'm dangerous; must be that cool, sociable, stoner front I put on. ;) )

After a while, though, either the skin hardens or the irritation numbs out; Tony1 managed to keep me somewhat puzzled until his departure, but I learned when Loone went off not to worry about it. I figure if Christianity is anything like what Loone and his slightly-more-dangerous counterparts are advertising, then we might see the end of it during our natural lifetimes: good luck with the extended plan.....then I realized that there are no reasoned arguments that can be directed at someone who has only a single extremely narrow train of thought and who has no comprehension of the meaning of debate or reason. My conclusion is that anything directed at Loone specifically is a waste of time – he is a lost cause and not worthy of direct attentionIn terms of the marketing strategy, I figure I'll give them as many reasons as they can conjure up to keep that ad campaign going in order to demonstrate the paucity of redemptive theism. I generally agree with you that communication has been rendered impossible. According to Mr Spock, "There are two possibilites: they are unable to respond; they are unwilling to respond." Strange, that; I'm not actually a Trekkie.However, he does represent a group of fundamentalist fanatics that at some time will have to be addressed before they become militant and dangerous to everyone. The unfortunate thing in this case is the United States Constitution. I don't propose a wholesale eradication of anyone or anything, though if there was a God in Heaven, he would have struck down Joe Liebermann for the "Vice President in Exile" crack, Bob Packwood for the "Masala" license plate, and George W Bush on general principle. However, I look at it a little like a stop-light theory. Everybody knows that county roads in the western US undergo traffic-flow revisions only after someone (a number of people, actually, but it usually takes children) dies on a curve, in an intersection, whatnot. Fanatics have killed doctors in Jesus' name--someone set off a small bomb at a medical clinic in Tacoma a couple of weeks ago, though nobody died in that. Yet we can't blame the religion, can we? How could it be held accountable? So a few more doctors die, these for stem-cell research. And then some plastic surgeons (on general principle, I suppose). Will a writer die for her novel? How about a more realistic example: child molesting. Okay, okay, yes ... we all know the jokes about Catholic priests and altar boys. Enough said. But, seriously ... if any private organization not in a position to decry investigations as anti-religionism and bigotry were to experience such a rate of victimization, we'd send the FBI at least. (Hey, if you're religious, you get the Moonshine Squad.) In Oregon City, Oregon, a local DA backed off a negligence charge in the case of the shooting death of a 5 year-old girl for fear of being seen as persecuting Latter-Day Saints, for some sort of comparison.

It is necessary that I hop out of order:I have significant respect for many Christians who admit they have no proofs for their beliefs and who show reasonable tolerance for the ideas and beliefs of others, but Loone is very different.I think it's unfortunate that it's come to a point where we must express that very sentiment of respect; I wish so badly that ... well, that's just it: I wish it hadn't come to that. I've felt boxed in by Christianity for so long that I was surprised when the cries of persecution arose from Oregon Christians in 1995 and '96, amid a talk-show selection of equal rights (gay), school prayer (voluntary and compulsory), firearms, tobacco, Clinton sex, TV sex ... oh, and taxes ... pretty much the same as it is today. I always figured, If you're always on the losing side of the debate, ask yourself why! I get along reasonably well with Catholics--which may seem strange, but I truly do appreciate their theological effort, on both intellectual and amusing levels--Quakers--again, this may seem strange, but they have good answers for nearly everything: Quakers don't dance, we rhythm--and, of course, my familial Lutheranism. Of this last, I have to admit it's why I don't watch Frasier. If the show's not funny, it's because I recognize a certain WASP stereotype that adequately transfers onto my Lutheran experience--these characters are not a stretch for me, and it makes me climb the walls. Even of the seemingly-morbid Catholic ritualism do I have an appreciation. Traditional ritualism has its place in society, but this is kind of ridiculous to me: have you ever witnessed a praying of the rosary? Catholocism fascinates me because it is the living extension of the process; if I respect Apostolic succession and Ecclesiastical succession at all, it is mostly for historical value. Point being, how did a simple a priori become the central dividing point of human beings? I prefer to think of Loone as exceptional in this regard; it dims my hope for humanity to think that he represents the bulk of this spectre that haunts the Earth. But yes, it is kind of creepy.Loone does seem to be representative of those fire and brimstone preachers of the past, who I thought had died out centuries ago.The Great Awakening, it was called, and it was America's sacrifice of the intellect. Before that, though, we have a rich tradition of redemptive absurdity; I've harped on Boston enough lately, and it is not unreasonable to question exactly how Christianity justified either the slavery of the American South, or its continental predecessor, encomienda. But as you go on to note, there are the televangelists. This is where the brimstone stump religion has gone. By the blood on Verra's floor, I still don't see why people sent Oral Roberts the money. Falwell? If that frenzy hadn't resulted in Flynt's shooting, I might be less sympathetic to pornography, music lyrics, and cinema content. There's that: the First Amendment is at the core of my being, come hell or high water. When I realized that people were willing to kill (yeah, right: I shot to cripple; then you should have shot his jaw off!) to shut each other up in this country, I became fiercely devoted to my Constitution. Loone's brand of religion is exactly what I fear of televangelism; Flynt's brand of tragedy is the mild edge of the potential result. For the record, Loone's brand of religion seems generally harmless, except for the reaffirmation of violent metaphors for those more dangerous than he (Lawdog ...?).I found that reassuring and strengthened my belief that most Americans do exercise common sense and are not easily duped by such creepy and repugnant TV shows. Just to wreck your slumber: it's a multibillion dollar cash cow. That means that, at a thousand bucks apiece, there are millions of people in this country giving their money over. As we settle in for the development phase of my TV show (yeah, that'll be the day ... but why not give it a shot), we're reflecting on how badly we're going to piss off whom. Republicans and Christians seem to carry the brunt of that, and that's without calculating or aiming. I mean, I'll probably piss off a lot of people, but a lot of those people won't ever be upset because even with a #1 show, they probably wouldn't watch anyway. So to be accurate, we expect to hear from Christians and Republicans most often. (You'll know it's me if you ever see a puppet rat setting itself on fire in an anti-drug commercial.)Clearly he would never voluntarily submit to psychiatric examination since he is at this time unaware that he is sick. And since he has no understanding of reason then it follows that there is no point in attempting to reason with him. So I am at a loss as to how one can help such poor unfortunates. Perhaps they should be discreetly ignored, but there remains that danger that they might become militant. So what to do, what to do? * What to do: Honestly? Exploit. Use them. That's what I'm doing. At the very best, if I manage to keep myself somewhat dignified--that is, within the bounds of social sympathy--then I'm effectively employing Christian rhetoric to discredit itself. I feel my tantrum against Lawdog was justified; I had the benefit of Loone missing the point so clearly at the same time that my personal assessment is that proper Christians would be embarrassed to ever have to explain what the hell that whole bit meant. In the end, the demonstration of the sacrifice of the intellect can only reduce the number of people converting. At first, this will be a good thing: bright minds will stay open and more free. To the other, it means that the last dregs of Christianity will be the least educated and least adept members of society. As to the state of his mental health: my political stance endangers my ability to teach in Oregon if the OCA ever gets their way. At the same time, Loone could teach your kids. I wonder if Bowser has thought of that. I could never submit to a law such as the OCA proposes. In addition, tell me again why Loone would be less dangerous to young intellects than a happily married gay man? If Loone is peaceably functional then I don't care how crazy he is: seriously, I get by on my charm in the world, if you can believe it. I'm generally incompetent in the objective world. So functional and not dangerous are all I ask. The best one can do is simply wish for the best in a case like the present. He's closed to intellectual engagement; hostility reinforces his dense prejudices; he seems fixated on his ability to triumph over something through his condition.

I suppose that at some point, I could try a proper paragraph. The present mode is just ... so ... natural ....What do you think it would take to break through his mental aberration and reach the intellect that might exist? I'm going to take the cheap answer, here. God works in mysterious ways.

Heck, you got me ... I figure that so long as he's functional, if it doesn't occur to him how to grow, change, and upgrade, well, that's evolution for you. But I don't think anything but a truly random paradigm trauma will do it. He's constructed a God who is everywhere; no matter where he looks, he finds God.

Lastly, of your kind words: it would be lying, obviously, if I said I'm speechless. I'm always happy to be of some use somewhere in the Univere.

thanx much,
Tiassa :cool:

Originally posted by Lawdog
Holy Mother Church and her Traditions is the work of God
No, it's not...

Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
(John 6:29, KJV).

Do this by seeking the grace of conversion from God in prayer, beseeching Mary our help, the very Mother of God, for this is a singular precious grace worth more than all the universe.
Too Catholic.
Here is what Jesus had to say about his mother...

And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
(Matthew 12:49, KJV).

Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
(John 19:25-27, KJV).

Since Jesus said to that disciple, "Behold thy mother," then that disciple must have been God, too, if Mary is the mother of God.

What is that disciple's name?
If you don't know, you worship a nameless God.

Emerald:
That is an interesting point you bring up about Mother Teresa.
Here is why she did what she did...

Conversion is accomplished in daily life by gestures of reconciliation, concern for the poor, the exercise and defense of justice and right, by the admission of faults to one's brethren, fraternal correction, revision of life, examination of conscience, spiritual direction, acceptance of suffering, endurance of persecution for the sake of righteousness. Taking up one's cross each day and following Jesus is the surest way of penance.
CCC, para. 1434

She figured that if she increased their suffering, they would somehow become more converted.

Originally posted by Rambler
I've seen snipits of the same program Cris is talking about. It certainly appears that she isn't the person we are all led to believe she is....however she's about as christain as they come horns and all, so as far as christain sait hood goes she's right up there in the running, along with all the genocidal physco's and petaphiles the church has managed to nurture.
She wasn't, and as far as I can tell, never claimed to be Christian.

She was Roman Catholic, and as far as I can tell, she did claim to be Catholic.

2.2 cents (GST inc).
Canadian, eh?

Originally posted by tiassa
It's worth mentioning that this is exactly how Tony1 got so far under my skin that I tried to knock a mountain down on him.
Missed!

Tony1 managed to keep me somewhat puzzled until his departure
Vacation.

then we might see the end of it during our natural lifetimes
You will, though I suspect it will be at the end of, rather than during.

I get along reasonably well with Catholics
Of course, you're in complete agreement with them.
I daresay, you are Catholic.

it would be lying, obviously, if I said I'm speechless.
Obviously.

Tony1--

You may not get the fight you want with Lawdog; we haven't been hearing much from the old yapper lately.Missed!Oh, I don't know. It's not like you ever have anything useful to say. And you've never managed to do much in the way of response except dance around like a brat and tell everyone how superior your vision is. I consider my point made, in that case.Vacation.Ah, yes ... and how fortuitous that you've been gone just long enough that you may not actually have to have the Mother-Church fight ... nice work on that timing. Of course, it's for the best: Lawdog might try to burn you alive, or something.You will, though I suspect it will be at the end of, rather than during.Well, Tony, when Christianity dies out, there will in its place arise a new hope; even if I get to feel that for a mere five minutes before my passing, I will go to the great mystery knowing that humanity has a better chance of surviving than it did before.Of course, you're in complete agreement with them.
I daresay, you are Catholic. Oh, what's the matter, Tony? Just because you hid out long enough that you don't get to bark at the Dawg, you think you can take your hatred of Catholics out on me? Get a new tactic; this one's moronic.

Tell you what, Tony ... pretend you're in Missouri and you've claimed to have an intellect. Now, show us.

Otherwise you're living proof of the human detriment that is your faith.

--Tiassa :cool:

Cris, you're back!

How did you become a sophmore?

Originally posted by tiassa
I consider my point made, in that case.
THC does that to a person.
Ah, yes ... and how fortuitous that you've been gone just long enough that you may not actually have to have the Mother-Church fight ... nice work on that timing.
Actually, no.
I would have preferred to have been in on that.
Of course, it's for the best: Lawdog might try to burn you alive, or something.
Catholics have a history of doing that.
Well, Tony, when Christianity dies out, there will in its place arise a new hope; even if I get to feel that for a mere five minutes before my passing, I will go to the great mystery knowing that humanity has a better chance of surviving than it did before.
Here's a view of your new hope...

And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
(Revelation 16:9-11, KJV).

Oh, what's the matter, Tony? Just because you hid out long enough that you don't get to bark at the Dawg, you think you can take your hatred of Catholics out on me? Get a new tactic; this one's moronic.
Well, it would be, if that is what I were doing. I actually thought Lawdog was still around.

BTW, you ARE Catholic, just lapsed. Your doctrine is almost letter-perfect acceptable Catholic doctrine, except that you don't push Mary as much as Lawdog.
Originally posted by thecurly1
Cris, you're back!

How did you become a sophmore?
I was wondering that, too.

Cris has been posting often enough to be at least an honorary doctor of letters, although not in the same league as tiassa, who appears to have diarrhea of the keyboard.

THC does that to a person.Yes, it does have certain effects on the intelligence; the reflective periods well-spent in the natural state do allow a person the opportunity to see through the vapid fantasies that religionists promote for the sake of their own pride.Actually, no.
I would have preferred to have been in on thatTwo points:

* We would have enjoyed it, too: neither of you make any sense whatsoever.
* Next time you take a "vacation" (wink-wink), try a better facility; you're not making any better sense than before you checked in.Catholics have a history of doing that. See? We agree on some things from time to time: can you build on that, or are you determined to demonstrate your Christly humility by babbling on like an idiot lost amid superlative self-assumption?Here's a view of your new hope...Watch more horror movies; such fiction as you cited won't scare you so much with such silly banalaties. I mean, the fear seems to dictate your thought process.Well, it would be, if that is what I were doing.Well, try a different facility; some will help you faster than others.BTW, you ARE Catholic, just lapsed. Your doctrine is almost letter-perfect acceptable Catholic doctrine, except that you don't push Mary as much as Lawdog. Tony you amuse the hell out of me sometimes, like now. Just because you can't comprehend history--or, so we come to believe based on your inability to consider it in your posts--doesn't make you correct. You still seem to ignore the fact that your God thought Catholics so important to His Plan that He made them the sole stewards of His Word for many centuries; without that period of stewardship, there would be no Protestant Reformation, and you would be one of two things in your faith in Jesus:

1) Catholic
2) Not even Christian, for without those centuries of Catholic stewardship, there would be no Word for you to abuse except as a relic in a museum alongside the Rosetta Stone.

Your hatred of Catholics tickles me sometimes; at least you aren't threatening people with murder. Though you do seem to take glee in your assumption that other people will suffer; your lack of compassion is about what we expect from you.Cris has been posting often enough to be at least an honorary doctor of letters, although not in the same league as tiassa, who appears to have diarrhea of the keyboard.Aww, Tony ... does it hurt that much? At least I get it out; you still seem to be full of it. Of course, that might explain what's wrong with your thought process, too.

Do better.

I know I've said that a lot, but I keep hoping you're capable of it.

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:

Originally posted by tiassa
Yes, it does have certain effects on the intelligence; the reflective periods well-spent in the natural state do allow a person the opportunity to see through the vapid fantasies that religionists promote for the sake of their own pride.
When my kid was in his natural state, he crapped in his pants whenever he felt like it.
I can only conclude that you do the same.

Next time you take a "vacation" (wink-wink), try a better facility; you're not making any better sense than before you checked in.
So now you've got a problem with the Sheraton Hotel in Anchorage?
You still seem to ignore the fact that your God thought Catholics so important to His Plan that He made them the sole stewards of His Word for many centuries; without that period of stewardship, there would be no Protestant Reformation, and you would be one of two things in your faith in Jesus:

1) Catholic
Your mind is failing.

I would be Catholic without the Catholics?
Wow, they have more influence than I thought.

Though you do seem to take glee in your assumption that other people will suffer;
You must be confusing me with Lawdog.

Does it hurt that much?
No.

Before I started on sciforums, you were up to about 1300 posts.
After some forum revision, you dropped back to zero.
Now you're already up to 2000+.

I suspect you're just as addicted to posting as to THC, or you're suffering from some kind of mental diarrhea.

When my kid was in his natural state, he crapped in his pants whenever he felt like it.
I can only conclude that you do the same. You have, once again, missed the point entirely.

A) Were he in the natural state, he would have no pants to crap.
B) To be more relevant to the subject of which you are currently demonstrating your idiocy, even if we apply the stupid 6000 years of creation, humanity has only been forcibly separated from marijuana for 1% of its existence. If we climb the evolutionary tree, that percentage reduces quickly. Your hatred of one of God's creations is a rebellion against the natural state your God allegedly created.

Of course, nobody's surprised that you don't get it.So now you've got a problem with the Sheraton Hotel in Anchorage? Sure, Tony, we believe you. :rolleyes:Your mind is failing.

I would be Catholic without the Catholics?
Wow, they have more influence than I thought. Point. My slip. However, the grander point still stands. God found the Catholics important enough to entrust them to ensure that you could receive His Word. Your hatred of Catholics is a hatred of God's Will.You must be confusing me with Lawdog. No, sir ... you're the one with confidence in your redemption, repeatedly expressed at this site. You seem to take delight in your perception that other people will be condemned. Of course, I can either assume you're an idiot who is incapable of seeing the consequences of your own faith, or else I can assume you're trying to dodge the issue entirely, much as we've come to expect of such faith as yours.I suspect you're just as addicted to posting as to THC, or you're suffering from some kind of mental diarrhea.Again you demonstrate your ignorance. Ask Dave about the post count if you need clarification, though I wonder if you're capable of understanding the answer. In the meantime, please provide credible medical evidence that THC is chemically addictive. It can induce psychological dependency, but that requires preexisting psychological conditions.

You can, however, be addicted to coffee, beer, Pepsi, various teas, &c. Hell, it's possible to get addicted to aspirin, but that's only because they jack it with caffeine.

Try learning about those things of which you speak ... oh! I'm sorry, you left your intellect on the altar as a sacrifice.

I believe the following is from Robert Herrick, though I might have the wrong Protestant:Two went to the temple to pray
To pray? Or, rather, say,
One went to brag, th'other to pray.
One stands up close and treads on high
Where th'other dares not set his eye.
One nearer to God's altar trod,
Th'other to the altar's God.Keep up the haughty faith, sir. It's what we've come to expect. Of course, having mental diarrhea and getting it out is preferable, I think, to being full of shite. Take a laxative, Tony ... it might clear out enough space between your ears that you can find the place that sacrificed intellect used to be.

:rolleyes:,
Tiassa :cool:

Originally posted by tiassa
humanity has only been forcibly separated from marijuana for 1% of its existence. If we climb the evolutionary tree, that percentage reduces quickly.
You must be climbing back down the evolutionary tree, in that case.

However, the grander point still stands. God found the Catholics important enough to entrust them to ensure that you could receive His Word.
The Dark Ages were called the Dark Ages because the Catholics were in power.
During that time. it was illegal in Catholic countries for laypeople to own a Bible.
The Catholics also mandated Latin Bibles.

I guess they were unclear on your concept.
You seem to take delight in your perception that other people will be condemned.
That's just the THC distorting your perceptions.
I take no delight in people being condemned.
Of course, I can either assume you're an idiot who is incapable of seeing the consequences of your own faith
There won't be much suffering.
It is your religion which has people being tortured for ever.
Mine does not.

And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
(Malachi 4:3, KJV).

Ask Dave about the post count if you need clarification
No need to bother Dave.
I can see your post count is 2028, by simply looking at it.
In the meantime, please provide credible medical evidence that THC is chemically addictive.
Clever kid.
I didn't say it was chemically addictive.
It can induce psychological dependency, but that requires preexisting psychological conditions.
That's been my theory all along.
So what is your preexisting psychological condition, tiassa?

I believe the following is from Robert Herrick,...
I believe the following is from Paul...

Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
(Hebrews 4:16, KJV).

Whoever wrote that little ditty you quoted was somewhat unclear on the concept.

The goddess you're channeling can't do that, which is why your emphasis is on abject begging for mercy as a description of Christianity.
Of course, the Catholic religion is based on begging for mercy, which explains your affinity for it.

You must be climbing back down the evolutionary tree, in that case. One could say that I've chosen not to cut off the limb on which I perch. However, your lack of any real response tells us much about your ignorance. You have, Tony missed the point. It's an old story now.The Dark Ages were called the Dark Ages because the Catholics were in power.
During that time. it was illegal in Catholic countries for laypeople to own a Bible.
The Catholics also mandated Latin Bibles.

I guess they were unclear on your concept. I tend to agree that Catholics of old were very unclear on certain concepts. However, the fact remains that it was not Baptists who held the Bible for those centuries, nor was it Lutherans. What your admitted apathy toward history creates is your inability to perceive that without history, there would be no present--How, Tony, could you have received the Bible if the Word of God faded to dust 1900 years ago? You have had exceptional difficulty considering this question. Should we conclude it is because you have chosen ignorance? Or should we conclude that you are as afraid of this issue as you are of anything else you respond to? That's just the THC distorting your perceptions.
I take no delight in people being condemned. Okay, Tony, whatever you say. :rolleyes: Nobody's noticed your propensity for reminding people that you're already saved and they aren't and won't unless they agree with you. :rolleyes:There won't be much suffering.
It is your religion which has people being tortured for ever.
Mine does not. You'll have to establish what religion that is; I quite severely doubt you can get this one right. You seem to think I'm Catholic.No need to bother Dave.
I can see your post count is 2028, by simply looking at it. Such an answer has nothing to do with the point you were trying to make. Why is that, Tony? Is it because you are pointless?Clever kid.
I didn't say it was chemically addictive.When referring to drugs, addictive refers to a chemical addiction, such as you get from cocaine, caffeine, and heroin. Dependency refers to a psychological need. If you knew what you were talking about, we wouldn't have to review this point. Choose your words more carefully, Tony: Do better. You owe it to God to do better. Your performance so far is shameful.That's been my theory all along.
So what is your preexisting psychological condition, tiassa? That's actually an interesting question; those close to me point to two options: Mother-issues, or else alienation issues resulting from living in a persecutory environment. However, for the official record, the psychologists are officially 0-4 in trying to diagnose what's going on in my head. Officially, three have said, "There's nothing wrong with you that I can determine," and one has said, "I am incapable of diagnosing, and therefore incapable of treating you." Take your pick.

As to how that relates to my THC use, like I noted: it's the natural state. I look at "sober" persons and wonder what the hell's wrong with them. If your reading comprehension skills were up to par, you'd see what that has to do with the natural state. But somehow, we went from THC to your dirty diapers at one point, so I'm pretty much convinced that you're either an idiot or simply not paying attention.Whoever wrote that little ditty you quoted was somewhat unclear on the concept. Well, take it up with Herrick when you get to Hell. Oh, that's right, you'll be dead. At any rate, does that mean you're asserting that the point of faith is to announce it loudly and show everyone how good you are so that God will favor you?The goddess you're channeling can't do that, which is why your emphasis is on abject begging for mercy as a description of Christianity.
Of course, the Catholic religion is based on begging for mercy, which explains your affinity for it.Are you really that stupid? See, the problem is that I can't assume that you really are that devoid of intellect. Unlike your religion, mine chooses not to assume the worst in everyone.

So which is it, Tony? Am I part of the Jesus and Mary chain, or the Spiral Dance? You seem quite unclear on the concept. Of course, that surprises nobody.

:rolleyes:,
Tiassa :cool:

Originally posted by tiassa
One could say that I've chosen not to cut off the limb on which I perch.
I guess you're going to wait until it burns off?
However, the fact remains that it was not Baptists who held the Bible for those centuries, nor was it Lutherans.
Well, it certainly wasn't those two groups, but there were other groups.
The Coptic church had the Bible longer than the Catholic Church.

Besides, most of the historical information available from the Dark Ages was filtered thru the Catholic Church.
A teeny bit of bias may have crept in.

Since you are Catholic, I suspect you may tend to favor that bias.

without history, there would be no present
?
There are some who might say, "without the past, there would be no present."
How, Tony, could you have received the Bible if the Word of God faded to dust 1900 years ago?
It couldn't fade to dust, because the Word of God is spoken.
You seem to think I'm Catholic.
So do you.
You say you're not, but all of your doctrine is Catholic.
Such an answer has nothing to do with the point you were trying to make.
My point was that you post a lot.
2028 is a lot.

When referring to drugs, addictive refers to a chemical addiction, such as you get from cocaine, caffeine, and heroin. Dependency refers to a psychological need.
You're breaking new ground in the area of drug use.
I suspect a new word will have to be coined shortly to cover your situation.
That's actually an interesting question; those close to me point to two options: Mother-issues, or else alienation issues resulting from living in a persecutory environment. However, for the official record, the psychologists are officially 0-4 in trying to diagnose what's going on in my head. Officially, three have said, "There's nothing wrong with you that I can determine," and one has said, "I am incapable of diagnosing, and therefore incapable of treating you." Take your pick.
You're demonized.
Ordinarily, I might not say that, but when you say you can see them, it is pretty obvious.
I look at "sober" persons and wonder what the hell's wrong with them.
They're normal.
You are apparently so far from normal, that you can't recognize it anymore.
But somehow, we went from THC to your dirty diapers at one point, so I'm pretty much convinced that you're either an idiot or simply not paying attention.
I suspect you're not that far from dirty diapers again, so it isn't as much of a digression as you're trying to get me to believe.

Unlike your religion, mine chooses not to assume the worst in everyone.
You should consider the worst your goddess will accomplish in your life.

Am I part of the Jesus and Mary chain, or the Spiral Dance?
I'm sure the Spiral Dance plays a major role in your life.
I just think you let your head do all the spinning.

However, since the spiral dance is perfectly acceptable Catholic doctrine, you're still Catholic, although hewing more toward Mary, the goddess, rather than Jesus.

What else can we think? Calling me Catholic is as much a slander as calling you an example of Christ's vision.

Seriously! What would you like us to think?

1) Demonstrate my Catholocism; start a topic and take a poll. Go on. Let's see what you've got. We haven't seen it yet, so we're not expecting anything.

2) Do you talk to your children with this level of disrespect? God help them, indeed.It couldn't fade to dust, because the Word of God is spoken. Oh, that would be a reliable source. Of course, the stewards would have been so busy talking maybe some of it would have paid off. They wouldn't have had as much time to kill, now, would they? The fact is, Tony, that without the Catholics you hate so much, you would not be a Christian. You'd be whatever other empty religion du jour happened to possess the culture. Someone had to get around to something as evil as Christianity eventually. I mean look at history! Look at the present! Y'all aren't doing much to your Savior's credit.The Coptic church had the Bible longer than the Catholic Church. Yeah ... that's why they're such a large and powerful sect today.You say you're not, but all of your doctrine is Catholic. Are you so narrowminded? Oh, of course you are.

Since you have no sense of human empathy, no sense of human sympathy, and with no sense of actual human compassion, what else can I expect of you except for delusional context? Why don't you be so kind as to pull out the cork and stop sticking nails into your Savior. I'm pretty sure the point of his forgiveness is not so that you can proclaim your faith by slapping him around. At least your kid crapped his pants. Stop shitting on Jesus. I don't hate him; why do you?

Do better, Tony ... we don't know what else to think except that you really are an idiot. Seriously: are you shooting for an internet record of the most number of posts without saying anything?

And all the while, you demonstrate every wrong potential of the faith; well, except for the murder thing. You haven't called for cultural extinction yet; of course, you seem quite assured that it will happen in an act of love.

(Edit) ... I just read your post in Crumbling the Foundations of Christianity; thank you for confirming the above statement.

:rolleyes:,
Tiassa :cool:

Originally posted by tiassa
Calling me Catholic is as much a slander as calling you an example of Christ's vision.
So, what's the problem?

1) Demonstrate my Catholocism; start a topic and take a poll.
You worship the goddess; the Catholics worship the goddess.
I don't need a poll for that.

without the Catholics you hate so much, you would not be a Christian.
Without the Hindus, you wouldn't be a Sufi?
Without religion X, you wouldn't be Y?

What kind of thinking is that?

I mean look at history! Look at the present!
The Boston Tea Party was...bad?...good?
What's your point?

Seriously: are you shooting for an internet record of the most number of posts without saying anything?
No chance of that. You've got that nailed.

Yeah ... that's why they're such a large and powerful sect today.

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
(Matthew 7:13, KJV).

Looks like they might be OK.

Ah, tiassa,

The futility of directly responding to tony1! I thought (hoped) he had left for good.

Are you really going to pursue his mindless posts over all the forums again? You know you can't win against such irrelevance and emptiness.

His objective is not reasoned debate but the perverted pleasure of destructive cynicism. Can you maintain your high literary standards without sinking to his level?

Cris

Chris, Tony 1 is doing fine! He stands for what he believes in against your's and Tiassa's ignorance of the truth to your existence here on planet Earth! And I say with GOD on my side, that you are not 'mutated anthropoids', but beings (though fallen) created in the image of GOD your Creator, that means that your created in His likeness, that all of mankind was created with an immortal soul on a higher plane then all the animal kingdom on Earth and to rural over them! To the Glory of GOD!

But you have rejected His Son (Jesus) and GOD will be angry with you and soon dispose of the likes of ye to everlasting separation from GOD the Author and Sustainer of life itself! That is called HELL! And all that go there, the Wraith of GOD abides on them all, forever! I personally do not and will not condemn anyone here or anywhere else to HELL only GOD Himself can do that, and even He does not wish that any should perish, but to come to His Son JESUS for forgiveness! There is no other way to Heaven, no one can be good enough esp. apart from JESUS and His atonement for our sins! Nothing I have written here is to my own pride or glory, I have nothing, but I do it because it is so true inspite of me because of the TRUTHS OF GOD'S HOLY WORD! I do it all to the Glory of GOD!!:mad: :D

well, about what those things you say usually mean: nothing.

Something about the sacrifice of the intellect: Loone, you are a living example thereof.

:rolleyes:,
Tiassa :cool:

Originally posted by Cris
The futility of directly responding to tony1! I thought (hoped) he had left for good.
One can hope.

You know you can't win against such irrelevance and emptiness.
Speaking of irrelevant emptiness, how's the TM going?
I thought, at one point, that you were a relatively hardcore realist, in that you simply required proof of God to believe in God, but it turns out that you believe in God, after all.

His objective is not reasoned debate but the perverted pleasure of destructive cynicism.
Cynic.

Can you maintain your high literary standards without sinking to his level?
One thing about tiassa is that he probably can.
You have to hand it to him; he does research, writes coherently and even pays attention to the appearance of his posts.

It's not likely that he'll just drop all of that.

Originally posted by Sir. Loone
He does not wish that any should perish, but to come to His Son JESUS for forgiveness!
More people should realize this.

Originally posted by tiassa
Something about the sacrifice of the intellect: Loone, you are a living example thereof.
what about....
"tiassa
Stoned"?

Altho kudos to you on the literary merit of your posts, the content is evidence of a true sacrificed intellect.
Others' thoughts, goddess visions, psychiatric visits...

what about....
"tiassa
Stoned"?

Altho kudos to you on the literary merit of your posts, the content is evidence of a true sacrificed intellect.
Others' thoughts, goddess visions, psychiatric visits...Come on, Tony ... don't you have anything to say?

That's some nice pettiness there, boy. Did you have to work real hard to get like that, or was it a gift from God?

:rolleyes:,
Tiassa :cool:

QUESTIONS FOR ATHEISTS AND AGNOSTICS



If we dwell in a finite world created by an infinite God, is not a Gödelian theorem exactly what we should expect to find?



Why was it that Christian theology and Christian thinkers impelled the major modern developments in infinity theory?



Since mathematical theory ultimately rests on faith, why do you denounce Christianity for resting on faith?



The history of science shows that strictly mechanistic views of the world have consistently failed to hold up. Why not acknowledge that the world is not strictly mechanistic as materialistic explanations must suppose?



In light of Gödel's proofs and Christ's transfinite claims, won't you yield yourself to God?

Interesting interpretation. Does it come from is context within the surrouding verses? Or is that just what you were told it means?

And what problem did daktaklakpak identify?

So there IS no devil anymore? People just suddenly turn to evil? What IS evil, anyway?

*Me: "Altho kudos to you on the literary merit of your posts"

You:"That's some nice pettiness there"*
It's all I could find.


Neg
Is there an echo in here?

You:"That's some nice pettiness there"*
It's all I could find.So much for the bounty of your faith. Have you considered Hare Krishna? Or maybe suicide? With all that promise of compassion, base pettiness is all you could find?

And you wonder what we the infidels think is wrong with Christianity?

:rolleyes:,
Tiassa :cool:

*Originally posted by tiassa
So much for the bounty of your faith. Have you considered Hare Krishna? Or maybe suicide? With all that promise of compassion, base pettiness is all you could find?

And you wonder what we the infidels think is wrong with Christianity?*

If the only thing you can find wrong with Christianity is that your own joke backfired, tell better jokes.

It was you who pointed out the pettiness.

I was complimenting you on the merits of your posts.

I was complimenting you on the merits of your posts.Really? Sorry, Tony1, but given the sarcastic BS content of your usual posts, I just figured it was more of the same. See what I mean about context? All I have for a contextual interpretation is what you give me. And when you give complete and utter BS, it's what we come to expect. You've set your own standard of honor, Tony1. Excuse the hell out of us for respecting it. Would you prefer we undertake your analytical standard of rejecting everything we observe, anyway? It'll make it easier. But if we all acted like you do, Sciforums would be useless, reduced to the kind of babble found at Parascope and other outlets for dysfunctional, assumptive literacy.

The next time you choose to complement someone, you shouldn't include a list of the things you've already criticized and derided. It makes you look as hollow and stupid as, well, the rest of your posts.

:rolleyes:,
Tiassa :cool:

*Originally posted by tiassa
The next time you choose to complement someone, you shouldn't include a list of the things you've already criticized and derided.*

I don't think I've ever commented previously, pro or con, on the appearance of your posts, the fact that you collect citations or the generally erudite way you present your points.

My comments are generally directed at the points, or lack thereof, themselves.

Ah ... that makes ... sense, I suppose. :rolleyes:

Whatever you say, boy ... whatever you say.

--Tiassa :cool: