I've gotten pretty good at realizing when I 'wake up' in a dream (in other words that point when you know you're dreaming but remain asleep) so I can control my actions in this state reasonably well. My problem is that I always thought lucid dreaming would be like perfect virtual reality, a 'Disneyland of the mind' so to speak but (for me so far at least) it isn't. I find that when I'm in control while dreaming it's both very hard to move (like my limbs are moving through jelly) and everything around me is murky (like looking through silty water) ... on top of that, the harder I concentrate the more difficult movement and sight become.

Now don't get me wrong, it's still fun, I can fly easily enough and pass through objects etc. as long as I don't try moving my limbs too much but is this it? Am I doing something wrong?

I guess I'm asking where I go from here, I seem to have hit a plateau. It took a while for me to get past the fear (I don't know about you but I found this state terrifying at first and it took a while to get the meagre control I have now but I can't get past the point I currently find myself). Flying around is fun (very visceral) but I'm stuck in this silty world with very little to see or do, somehow I expected more.

I suppose I'm looking to hear from people who are experienced in controlling their dreams, I'd appreciate any pointers or insight.

thanx.

I only had one lucid dream so I can't recommend anything: the
moment I realized I was dreaming, I took off and flew around.
Waking up sucked :P

I would like to have a lucid dream. In a dream flying is normal. If you know you are dreaming, you will find flying and everything cool...

How would I go about making myself know I am dreaming?

If you are interested in lucid dreaming, go to the parapsychology forum at the bottom of the main sciforums page. That is discussed a lot. Lucid dreaming is great.

The key for me is to concentrate less. Like, if I’m sleeping on my side then one eye may initially be covered in a lucid dream or out-of-body experience. I decided this is because I’m too mentally attached to my body, so I let go of the attachment to clear the obstruction. This means I’ll blink a few times while knowing that I can see, which is a way of ignoring my body state and without concentrating on how to restore my vision. Hard to explain. I think that your maximum level of control is nearly 100% but you’re just not using it. Pretend that you have full control and see what happens. When it’s murky and hard to move, close your “eyes” and envision clear sight and freedom of movement. Then open your eyes. Closing & opening your eyes is a way to more easily accept a drastic change in your environment.

I used to have a problem passing through objects. They were solid. I realized I was making them solid. Now I put their solidity out of my mind. You are innately doing that when you pass through objects, and you can do the same thing for the murkiness and difficulty of movement.

4DHyperCubix
How would I go about making myself know I am dreaming

well I haven't 'studied' this at all, everything I know is just from trial and error but here's how I did it.

You know when you 'wake up' but find you can't move or scream? like being completely paralysed? This was my starting point, when this happens now its like a flashing neon sign to me that I'm dreaming, it scared the living crap out of me at first but once i got passed that I started using this state as a jumping off point for lucid dreaming. The really hard part is not waking up, like zanket said, if you concentrate too hard you get less control. On the other hand if you don't concentrate enough you'll wake up (at least that's the case with me). I've been told there are many techniques to lucid dream but I tend to do better when I just fumble through things and experiment, that's just me though.

I wish I could offer more but that's why i started this thread to begin with, to get 'expert' advice so stay tuned. Hopefully we'll get lots of input from the pros.

BTW - thanx zanket, I'll try the blinking thing. As you said the passing through objects part was really just a matter of realizing that I can do it and voila! I could, but seeing clearly (for me) is much harder.

My starting point was the vibrations/humming sound that presage an out-of-body experience. For years I willed it to go away. Now I wouldn’t mind if it happened every night. All trial & error with me too. My hardest part is also not waking up. I try to be analytical about it and experiment, but often there’s so many fantastic things to see that I get sidetracked.

My starting point was the vibrations/humming sound that presage an out-of-body experience.


!!!!!!!!!!!!! Holy crap! that happens to you too?!! I didn't mention it because I was afraid that you'd all think i was nuts. Sometimes the vibrations become so intense my teeth actually hurt when I wake up. WHAT THE HELL IS THAT? Of everything I've experienced in lucid dreams the thing i wonder most about is that vibration/hum (it's the only constant I've noticed) and its SO intense, I'm dying to know if there is a physiological explanation for it. Everything else makes sense to me, the flying and passing through objects, etc. after all, it's all in you're head so theoretically anything is possible but that vibration is a total mystery to me. Why is it always present while lucid dreaming but not in regular dreaming? Why does it happen at all? As I said i can feel the effects of the vibration/hum even after I wake, it makes me think that it's actually manifesting physically ... as if every cell in my body is humming, what the hell is up with that? its driving me crazy to understand what's going on (physiologically) during lucid dreaming. I'd love to see a CAT scan and MRI of someone in this state.

btw if anyone knows of university studies or lab tests of this stuff I'd love any links or info.

Try a Google search on: vibration “out of body”. You probably won’t find much in the way of scientific research, but you will find a lot of personal accounts to compare to your own. To me it also feels as if every cell in my body is humming.

When the vibrations/humming starts I think Yeehaw! because I’m about to go to Disneyland. I’m usually wide awake at this point. I relax and let the vibrations build a bit while I plan what I will do out of my body. Then I try to lift my head off the pillow. If my head has weight, I let the vibrations continue before retrying. Eventually my head has no weight and I get out of my body. I’m free!

Given that, I’d say that physiologically the vibrations are a separation of your mental “you” from your physical body. Whether that in itself is a mental or physical separation I don’t know. It sure seems physical! Maybe the CAT scan tech would run away screaming.

The vibrations almost always start when I’m awake, and I usually have to take the action of clambering out of my body, so for me they are associated with out of body experiences and not lucid dreams.

I have had a lot of experience's with lucid dreaming and outer-body experiences. The trick for me is always the same.
Dont concentrate on it, but want it like a child wants a certain gift on christmas. I always use my inner-child for it. And we have gone far far far out.

I have travelled through time, space and still enyoing it.
Now and again. Dont no what cause the fibritions ( but I only notice them slighty when im in meditive trance).
Though they strongly remind me of some overdosisses I gave myself ( one needs to experiment to grow)

My biggest problem I have had with lucid dreaming I had so far is I cant go beyond time (the beginning of the universe).
I travelled through different dimensions to ( wonder how far back I can go in those).

Well that was my contribution on this subject

What are the different dimensions like? And the different times?

Well ill give to examples.
First you must know, while in this state there are portals. They feel ( more sensing them) like point of energy. They can be traveled through quiet easly ones you know they there.

There are higher and lower dimensions. Higher and lower pretaining to the energy level of the dimension or plane your in.

One if been in is a cristilliane diminsion of beautiful harmony.
There my spirit is also a crystillian apparition and humming with the rest of the higher spirits there. IT FEELS REAL GOOD BEING ON A HIGHER PLANE.

The other has been my brief brief excurstion to a lower plane.
(WARNING HAVE A EXPERIENCED TRAVELER SITTING BESIDES YOU AWAKE) There always darker than the night and the spirits were fowl and colder than the grave. They were trying to suck my higher energy out me. It feel for there (in my eyes not there's ofcourse) trap. And needed to be pulled out by another.

Time travelling is easy, just go there. If spend running with mammoths feeling there hair brush against me and smelling there musk. It was fun.

The vibrations almost always start when I’m awake, and I usually have to take the action of clambering out of my body, so for me they are associated with out of body experiences and not lucid dreams.

For me the vibrations start in the 'between asleep and awake' state, I can still hear the awake world (for example a radio thats still on or people talking in another room) and I can see my room (usually dimly) even though I can feel that my eyes are closed, not to mention the initial paralysis. So I know I'm asleep but am still aware (to a degree) of my environment. I'm not sure what this state is called but it seems to be in the middle somewhere, not really true sleep.

You also implied there's a difference between lucid dreams and out of body experiences, I've never thought of them as different things, are they? If so what's the difference?

I've read some thoughts (like wellborn alluded to) that out of body experiences are a case of your 'spirit' literally leaving your body, its a fun idea but as i study the environment when 'out of body' its a bit inconsistent with that assumption. For example my room is very slightly different than in reality (like a lamp is in a different place or laundry that in reality is on the floor isn't there) it seems more like a memory of the room as opposed to my 'spirit' seeing it in real time.

I'd love to be able to truly travel around in this way but i get subtle clues if i look closely that imply (to me) that it's a construct of my imagination and not real travel. I try little things like count the floors as I float through my apartment building to see if it adds up or pay attention to the time of day once I get outside to see if it coincides with real time and it's almost always wrong. I guess thats why it seems like out of body and lucid dreams were the same thing, just a trip in my head.

That's just my opinion though, I've only been at this a few years. Frankly I hope I'm wrong but everything I've seen so far points to it all being in my mind, fun but not actual travel in space or time.

I don't believe that the 'other dimensions' are anything that is representative of reality. I have had lucid dreams where I can do anything I can imagine, including going to 'other times/dimensions'. I've had other dreams where I just 'go with it' and end up someplace unique... but still see evidence that it is my minds creation (IE: it incorporates elements from the day, my mood, etc.) I have no reason to believe that the 'other dimensions' people talk about are anything more then a limitation they are placing upon their own lucid dreams. It is in the same vien as not being able to fly, walk through walls, or lucid dream at all.

I've also had times where I have that 'stuck' feeling. 'Stuck' being anything from the slow-mo jello feeling to a void of black where I can't get anything to appear/happen... only think. I'm half suspecting that these are 'fake' lucid dreams. Kinda dreaming that I realize I'm dreaming.

As for the vibrations, I seem to get those more when meditating then lucid dreaming. Strange enough, it seems to prelude the very detailed day dreams.

Beautiful buffys.

No doubt lucid dreams and out of body experiences are closely related. To me there is a differnce very noticable. I induce my o.o.b experienes through trance. And lucid dreams just happen to me a lot :-)
Lucid dreams feels more like rolling through the mists while o.o.b is an more active excersize.

Lucid dreams is to me like still 50% dreaming while o.o.b is like 1 or 2 % dilloted by non-reallity.

But AS i stated before I get the same shake's while eating a lot of magic-mushrooms. And it is know that our brains makes its one phsycotropic agents. I went into this just for this reason.
My step-father-in-law believes holly in this and is very very experienced person in this fields.(and regression and shamballa and reikki and cristalprogramming)
But to me still the most logic explanation to me,is that you tab into that part of your brain that releases those agents.
(Well it doesn't explain some other stuff experienced during o.o.b)
It doesn't demean it for me either

For me it all comes down to the vibrations/humming, I really want to know what that is and why it happens. I can explain away everything else as being just in my head but the vibrating is one of the most intense things I've ever felt (asleep or awake) and like I said, its so vivid that my teeth often ache for a while after waking. That implies to me that its something actually happening on some physical level (as opposed to a trick of my mind) or the 'ache' wouldn't linger into wakefullness for so long.

btw thanks everyone for the replies so far, I didn't realize how much of this was commonly experienced. Im not sure why this is considered parapsychology (psycology maybe but I don't really see the 'para' part of it) but I'm getting the discussion I was looking for so I'm not complaining.

Maybe and i stess maybe, ( im no physcian)
But I guess that your mind is tricked into thinking something is very wrong with it.
Like suffering a severe case of the flu.
Your body tries to repair it self by generating heat through vibrition (only feels way better than in sickness).

Originally posted by buffys
I'm not sure what this state is called but it seems to be in the middle somewhere, not really true sleep.

The twilight zone. That’s where they start for me too. When I’m relaxing in bed but not asleep. If I wasn’t wide awake beforehand, I’m wide awake when they start, but I stay relaxed. The first time I thought the fire alarm above my bed was going off, and I put a pillow over it. It didn’t help!

You also implied there's a difference between lucid dreams and out of body experiences, I've never thought of them as different things, are they? If so what's the difference?

Lucid dreams I “find myself” in. The vibrations give me a choice while in the twilight zone and there’s a sensation of climbing out of my body. Both are realistic but the OBEs more so.

For example my room is very slightly different than in reality (like a lamp is in a different place or laundry that in reality is on the floor isn't there) it seems more like a memory of the room as opposed to my 'spirit' seeing it in real time.

I’ve done the same analysis! Sometimes there are dead giveaways, like a new skyscraper peeking over the hills. Other times just a bedspread is different, say. In my last OBE I for once had the notion to check out my body in my bed. There was a body there but it was my 4-year-old son. I held his hand in mine and we talked and I couldn’t tell he wasn’t real.

I'd love to be able to truly travel around in this way but i get subtle clues if i look closely that imply (to me) that it's a construct of my imagination and not real travel.

I think it is a construct, but I consider the possibility that both realities are constructs of not just my imagination. I’ve had conversations with spirits that reinforce this possibility for me. And some of the things I’ve seen seem beyond my imagination.

At this point in my experiences I’m looking forward to visiting those higher dimensions that wellborn describes (thanks wellborn!).

In my last OBE I for once had the notion to check out my body in my bed. There was a body there but it was my 4-year-old son. I held his hand in mine and we talked and I couldn’t tell he wasn’t real.

hmmm, neat. I see people a lot (oddly its often people I don't know) but they usually can't see or hear me.

Just out of curiosity, did you ask your son if he remembered your discussion in the OBE or if he had dreams that coincided with your appearance? That would be a good test for whether or not its just in your head or something more. Either way I envy you, Its very hard for me to interact directly with people in these 'dreams', not impossible, just rare.

I didn’t ask him because I’ve been convinced that it’s a construct. But I should ask.

Hi Buffys

I belive I have a lot of Lucid Dream experience..
About OBEs, well... Ive had one rare occasion were I was vibrating like Hell! While waking up from a normal dream, And I even felt my back muscles tingle because of the strong vibration that occured.

I was even waked up and looking at the ceiling when still shaking, vibrating... I felt a sound too. Its a pitty That I just had the start of a OBE experience.. :(


About Lucid Dreams.. well..
I have these about 4 to 5 times or more per month now..

My lucid dreams are quite vivid and "picture perfect", I can even feel cold, heat, etc.

The more lucid the more real it feels and more I can manipulate it.

Its very funny when We wake up inside the dream realising it to be just a dream and then start to manipulate, fly, alter objects, pass thru walls etc..

Contrary to what Ive seen written here, I believe with experience we can remember more and more lucid dreams, and have amazingly real ones.

Most of the time I believe the persons in the dreams are real, so these are not "supreme" counscious dreaming, but I do know its a dream and show the people in the dream that im a kind of God or something lol


The most easy way to have more lucid dreams is to question reality, and always keep in mind that if you see strange things, in locations you dont know off, you can realise inside a dream that your dreaming.

If you go to bed thinking of this for some days you will have lucid dreams, I believe a little practise will do it.

And if you cant move your limbs or see everything foggy, then your just having a low lucidity dream... Focus more, and the more lucid you become the more vivid and real the dream becomes. :D

Cya!

RE: sounds in the mind.

try this out:
sit on the floor, back straight, cross legged. take your hands and place them on your face such that your thumbs close off your ears, your index fingers close off your eyes, your middle fingers close off your nose, and your ring and pinky fingers close off your mouth. Before actually "sealing" yourself off this way, take a few steady, slower breaths to relax yourself.

Then, once you are closed off from the world outside your senses, what do you hear? I bet you hear one thing first off, a deep rushing sound - this is the blood moving through your body. What else? I bet you'll hear a high-pitch tone, similar to the sound a TV tube makes when it's on, but the TV is muted. A somewhat quiet squeal...

Supposedly, accoring to Yoga traditions (the Vedas), there are 8 fundimental sounds in your body. Each is less obvious than the previous, so as you practice, and learn to hear each one, you are getting better and better at learning to listen to your own body.

have fun!

hmph....maybe i should concentrate less....when i first had a lucid dream (like a couple of days ago :D :D) i tried to fly but it didnt happen, but i managed 2 make other people fly lol...the bad part of lucid dreaming is wakin up :(

Lucid Dreaming eh? I've had a few of those. First off, this site is essential to any lucid dreamers wanting to get their feet wet

http://www.lucidity.com/

The people here have taken lucid dreaming to a scientific level. They actually do experiements to do different tests. The general rule of dreams in general is that what you expect to happen happens. So if you get into a rut of believeing you can't move your limbs, you won't be able to move your limbs well. Me, I never had that problem. I walk effortlessly, flew the first time almost without any hitches, and so on. Now, the thing to realize is that their are two types of lucid dreams, and this is the key.

DILDS - Dream Induced Lucid Dreams. This is when you are asleep and realize while in the middle of a dream that you are dreaming. You go on to do whatever you want while you are still lucid. You generally have moderate levels of lucidity here.

By levels of lucidity I mean anywhere from just bearly realizing you are dreaming but not really doing anything about it, and you have no real sense of the real world, to haveing all your memories and know where you really are, and the limits and possibilities of your world, ect. So a dild is often somewhere inbetween there.

WILDS - Wake induced Lucid Dream. True to the name, these are to cool ones. These happen when you go straight from waking to asleep without EVER LOSING CONSCIOUSNESS. You heard me right. You never lose awareness while doing this. Pretty much this can only be done in the early morning hours when you can enter the dream state almost immediately after going to sleep. When you go to bed at night, it usually takes 90 minutes to enter your first dream period, and that's an aweful long time to hold on to your consciousness while asleep, if it's even possible. I have done this so no I'm not speaking out of my butt here:) Lemme tell you, it's cool. I litterally watched the dream form itself in front of my eyes from the blackness. I didn't do much though, but it was still cool. These dreams tend to have much higher levels of lucidity.

Another interesting thing is occured when doing these wilds and that is the process of entering and exiting REM sleep. Sometimes you will feel vibrations, a feeling of evil around you, or just feel plain old paralyzed as you enter REM sleep. This is normal and is what happens when you enter REM sleep. The thing is, usually you are not aware so you don't notice it happening. REM does 3 things IIRC. It freezes your body so actions you perform in dreams don't get carried out in real life. It removes sensations from real life as so you don't feel the sheets while dreaming at all times. And of course you see and sense your dream. These do not happen all at once neccessarily! This is why while you are falling asleep, you may feel yourself paralyze all the sudden or feel vibrations which is a precurser to all these things. Then soon to follow is your dreaming. And when you wake up, you may find yourself aware, but unable to move, as your REM sleep has turned off the dreaming, but not yet the paralysis.

Very important to know. That is why whenever I feel my body freeze, I get excitied because I know fun stuff is soon ahead:D

Okay, onto the final subject, what is a lucid dream and what is an obe.

The difference is simple, tho not simple to test. A lucid dream takes place in your mind. A OBE takes place in real life. So what does this mean? Lucid Dreams can easily be as vivid as real life so just because it looks real, doesn't mean it's an obe. Similarly, your body can trick itself into believing quite a few things, so you may be thinking you are having an obe (or at least your impression of what an obe would be like), but are not actually having one.

What you have to do is do a state check to test whether or not your environment is real. Look around you. Are things as they should be, or are things weird and misplaced? Can you read anything (people in general cannot read). If you can, try reading something out in the open, look away, and look back. If it's a lucid dream, the words should change or move around. I don't know why this is, but it does seem to work. Also try mentally commanding things to move and the such. Don't rely on how real the environment looks or sounds or feels, because a vivid dream can reproduce ALL of it.

If everything is stable, as it should be, and you are able to read and the such, you must be in an obe. I can't comment on obes as I've never experienced them, so you are on your own there.

My final note about lucid dreams is that lucid does not mean vivid. Often they are the one and the same, but you can have lucid dreams that are not vivid, and visa versa.

Ive just had a super lucid dream yesterday..

Real life visuals and I had some control over it, I was completely lucid and could write a 2 pages long description of the dream..

Pretty interesting stuff..

Floating in the air next to a skycraper with mirrored windows, while watching myself I can keep lucidity for a long time inside the dream :P


Probably in the future, the most entertainment pastime will be induced lucid dreams... they are as real as they get and kickass any movie/videogame regarding fun and realism.. ;)

My starting point was the vibrations/humming sound that presage an out-of-body experience. For years I willed it to go away. Now I wouldn’t mind if it happened every night. All trial & error with me too. My hardest part is also not waking up. I try to be analytical about it and experiment, but often there’s so many fantastic things to see that I get sidetracked.



The vibrations and buzzing noises happened to me once too. It scared the crap out of me cause I woke up to this really loud buzzing sound that almost sounded demonic.

I have never really been able to get full control of my dreams. Only twice have I been able to realize that I am dreaming, and only once have I been able to do anything cool(and it only lasted a few seconds before I woke up). In the middle of a fight I realized I was dreaming and socked the guy so hard in the stomache that my fist got stuck inside him, this is when i woke up.

I think I will go try to induce lucid dreaming again tonight. Sorry if my posts are disorganized or jumbled, it's really late here and I cant think straight.

so if you're conscious whiling dreaming, do you feel tired after you wake up or during the day, as if you didn't receive enough sleep?

No, if anything it's the opposite but that might be just because you had such an experience that you feel energized. Only your body needs sleep and your body (including your brain it seems) is sleeping during the experience.

so if you're conscious whiling dreaming, do you feel tired after you wake up or during the day, as if you didn't receive enough sleep?

I think the point is moot anyway because (at least in my experience) it's impossible to stay "conscious" while asleep for any serious length of time. It requires a fairly significant mental effort to stop from either slipping into a normal dream state or waking up, kind of like walking tightrope.

Woah, you guys vibrate? o.O

Those who want to facilitate Lucid dreaming, use sublingual Vitamin B-12, just before bedtime. This helps the brain enhance memory in both during the dream and after. Also the process improves your ability to move to different dimensions. Melatonin also complements the experience.

This thread gets at a fundamental issue for me. Everyone is describing "lucid dreams" but also a sequence of events identical to that described by experienced "astral projectors" such as Robert A. Monroe (e.g. "vibrations/shaking" preceeding the experience) when they describe, in detail, and out of body experiences.

I have had only a few fleeting lucid dreams. Was I traveling out of my body or having a lucid dream or are they the same thing?

Probably the same thing.

I used to have lots of lucid dreams when i was younger, now i cant even remember my dreams.. ugh all are weird and a blurr. The dreams had me flying, breathing in water, killing monsters, surviving cuts, tons of fantasy stuff :P

Km,
You need Medical Doctor's approval for taking those medicines.I mean,some people might get side effects that probably you have never experienced?...Isnt that irresponsible(Taking Medicines without the advice of a Doctor)? :confused:

bye!

i just found something interesting. i haven't been quite able to produce a lucid dream recently, but i've been getting better at remembering them. anyway, i realized the other night, i dream more vividly when the left side of my head is down. I would assume this is because i'm getting more blood to the creative hemisphere, but i guess i could just be imagining it. Anyway, just an interesting thought, anyone else experienced this?

Zion:

Prescription drugs are what you need doctor's approval. That is why they are called ... anyway, USA has turned into the biggest hypocondriac country on the planet. Perhaps you do need doctors approval to even drink water or use salt at the dinner table. Who knows, you may get sick drinking water or using salt. :D

I do recommend you should check with your board certified doctor before doing anything, even making love - you could get a heart attack you know. Make sure he/she watches you to see if you are doing it right. These products are not for Americans. Non-Americans, please indulge yourself - it is safe.

BTW - the reason they are called Vitamins is because they are essential for life. Without them, you die.

hehe...Yeah...:D
...;)


bye!

This helps the brain enhance memory in both during the dream and after.
How?

bye!

do recommend you should check with your board certified doctor before doing anything, even making love - you could get a heart attack you know.

Who,me or my Partner? :D

bye!

Who,me or my Partner?


Depends on who is the ugly one....hehe...:D

Hey...you just walked in...and I just came back from Mexico City...