I, myself, have never paid much attention to the abduction scene,
considering it mostly an emotional phenomenon, with very scant
physical evidence. A new article by James Mortellaro, a perceived
abductee and a Ph.D, made me question if maybe, just maybe, I
may have been a little too closed-minded and dismissive myself.
I know nothing reguarding the authenticity of the supporting
documents, but he claims they will be posted for review. I thought
this was a very strange and interesting read. A cut and paste:
"James Mortellaro presented at (----) Hospital in March of 2001 by ambulance to the Emergency Room.

Mr. Mortellaro was unconscious, later determined to be in mild shock.

Upon examination by the ER physician, patient was found to have bled (profoundly) from the bladder through the penis. His clothing was soaked with blood about the groin and upper thigh areas. There was sensitivity in the lower left quadrant even though the patient was unconscious. Patient was also found to have been bleeding from the nose and tear ducts. There were obvious signs of surgery in the nose above the septum, near the entrance to the sinuses."
http://www.rense.com/general46/dont.htm

Not very convincing at all. Firstly, the rambling, disjointed prose. Not a focussed individual, but rather one who like the sound of their own voice, an attention seeker.

How come nobody other than the abductee ever witnesses the event? It's a bit rosky, entering someone's home, but somehow, aliens can do this undetected, entering by dissolving walls with beams of blue light, and nobody sees a single thing.

Why do they keep coming for the same guy, over and over? If it's genetic research, as he proposes, they can learn everything they need from one blood sample, and clone him. They can then perform the experiments on the clone. his assertion doesn't really make sense.

He's not a well man. Suffers from IBS, and has had frequent nightmares since he was a child. It's well known that stomach disorderd in children allow proteins through the stomach wall ito th ebloodstream befire they can be metabolised. Once in the bloodstream, they get to teh brain, and can cause mood swings, hallucinations, in fact, everything this guy reports. Taken alongside the fact that he suffers from IBS as an adult, I think we have a more credible explanation awaiting us.

Regression 'therapy' is flawed and discredited. It's been thoroughly debunked as it is leading, and creates false memories. This accounts for the skeptics who had supposedly abducted, the act of regression places the memories there, the method is fundamentally flawed.

Many cases of 'abduction'' can also be explained by temporal lobe epilepsy. The symptoms match exeactly. Add regression hypnosis onto this, and a little predisposition, and you'll get your abduction.

I knew a girl who was a little unstable, who was religious. She was assualted nightly bu demons, not aliens, it turned out, after hypnosis. Odd folks see what they believe in under hypnosis, isn't it?

As for the 'medical report', well, to be taken with a pinch of salt, as just a transcript, with all the names and places that would aid it's verification removed. I would have expected a scan of the real thing at least. Of course, even if this guy had been admitted, thet wouln't lead us to the cause being aliens, necessarily.

The smelly rat in the whole report though, is the allusion to 'lost time' which is often claimed by abductees;

" but was about five hours off on the time. He thought the time was about 6 PM. It was close to midnight. "

But the opening line was;

"Mr. Mortellaro was unconscious"

No, once you've lost consciousness, or even just fallen asleep, you lose track of time. This is why we keep alarm clock by our beds, folks, and check them when we wke up, to see what time it is, as never have clue. So, the time thing, is expected, but adds nothing, apart from a whiff of lost time mystery.

My take? Just another loon looking for attention.

It's pretty short-on for details. This doesn't read like a genuine medical report to me.

"...since the alien species seem to dwell on our reproductive organs. "

Says more about the author's "issues" then it does about the aliens.

Come on 2inquistive - you believe this kook? Better change your tag to 2credulous!

Barkhorn.

Oh, BTW, people in ER's don't bleed - PROFOUNDLY.

This guy is full of s**t.

Barkhorn.

Allow me to point out that having a Ph.D. means nothing, especially in the regard of abductions.

Now, beside the complete and utter lack of documentation for the other doctors, and disregarding the fact he published this on a fucking website... and beside the fact this could very very easily be a 13 year old kid... everyone should believe what he says and agree with him wholeheartedly. We don't need evidence. We don't need anything even resembling substantiation. NO! All alien stories are inherently true, because aliens have visited our lonely, miserable planet that everyone just has so many fucking myths about it is nowhere near funny!

Goddamn, I hate bullshit.

First of all, I never said I "believed" this story. I said maybe, just
maybe I have been too dismissive of the phenomenon as I only
attributed an "emotional" or mental condition as the sole cause.
This story proclaims physical connections, as yet unverified. The
"case study" was supposedly written by his personal physician,
present at the time of the ER examinations, not hospital records.
The claim is more documents and affidavits are comming to verify
the physical injuries. If the doctor's statements and hospital records
can be verified as authentic, which has NOT been done so far, then the question of how the injuries happened would come into question.
Were they self-inflicted or what? If no proof is produced that the
injuries were, in fact, documented AT THE HOSPITAL, and were AS
DESCRIBED, then I would certainly classify the story as science fiction,
and dismiss it. If proofs are provided and can be authenticated, I
would still not come to the conclusion that an "alien abduction" had
occured, it would just raise questions. The story leaves out many
details. Where was Mr. Mortellaro when found? How were the State
Troopers involved and why were they searching for information about
car jackings in the area pertaining to the case? What was the witness
supposed to have seen? Why was his personal physician at the ER?
These details are supposed to be forthcomming and are the reasons I thought the report to be strange and interesting. I have
read another article by Dr. Mortellaro on a different subject and
he doesn't seem to be a 13 year old, but that doesn't mean he
isn't lying in this one.

Originally posted by Barkhorn1x
Oh, BTW, people in ER's don't bleed - PROFOUNDLY.

This guy is full of s**t.

Barkhorn.
===========================================

The following cut and paste was from a published article in Geriatrics
in regard to internal hemorrhage from tears.
" Vomiting places patients at risk for aspiration and Mallory-Weiss tears of the gastroesophageal junction mucosa. Such tears can bleed profoundly.

Chemical tests of NG aspirate for blood are of no clinical utility. Moreover, serious upper GI hemorrhage is not excluded by NG aspirate that is free of blood or "coffee grounds." In 10 to 15% of cases (usually duodenal ulcer hemorrhage) NG lavage is clear, even in the presence of active bleeding."

Originally posted by 2inquisitive
===========================================

The following cut and paste was from a published article in Geriatrics
in regard to internal hemorrhage from tears.
" Vomiting places patients at risk for aspiration and Mallory-Weiss tears of the gastroesophageal junction mucosa. Such tears can bleed profoundly.

Pardon me - I guess Doctor's are an illiterate lot, as the word they are searching for is PROFUSELY.

Profoundly = 1 a : having intellectual depth and insight b : difficult to fathom or understand
2 a : extending far below the surface b : coming from, reaching to, or situated at a depth : DEEP-SEATED <a profound sigh>
3 a : characterized by intensity of feeling or quality b : all encompassing

Profusely = 1 : pouring forth liberally : EXTRAVAGANT <profuse in their thanks>
2 : exhibiting great abundance : BOUNTIFUL <a profuse harvest>

Regards your previous post - it would appear to me, from the evidence presented - that Alien Abduction would be the LEAST likely explanation for this mans injuries (Occam's Razor).

Barkhorn.

Uh, Barkhorn, did you ever consider they were speaking of blood from
an, as yet, undetermined source? Occam's Razor sounds very impressive. It just means the least complicated explanation that
will fully explain an event is usually the perferred one. I wasn't
aware that even one explanation existed so far. Perhaps you
could enlighten me?

It is fascenating how many people are pushing for the "You are all so delusional" or "that guy is crazy" angle while the person in question was being treated for physical internal injuries. Sure there is room to doubt, but both explanations, the exotic and the mundane, require proof. I'm waiting for the follow-up personally.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Xevious
It is fascenating how many people are pushing for the "You are all so delusional" or "that guy is crazy" angle while the person in question was being treated for physical internal injuries. [QUOTE]

Was he? That is merely a claim made on a web page. Are we to believe everything we read on the web? You'd better stear clear of 'Landover Baptist' and 'The Onion' if you think so!

I don't know of a way of getting medical records from the hospital
or verifying Dr. Mortellaro's story, of course, but I did verify his
identity and the fact he did work with the NYPD. Seems Dr. Mortellaro
is an expert in Surface Mount Technology (SMT) devices, equipment,
and processes. Below is a link to his bio, if anyone is interested:
http://www.intota.com/viewbio.asp?mode=&bioFile=/xml/biofull/604198data.xml&bioID=604198&strQuery=paneling

He has also written several pieces for the NYPD, mostly about gun
control, while he was there as an auxiliary Police Officer. A link:
http://www.2ampd.net/Articles/Mortellaro/Mortellaro.htm

None of this makes his story true, but a question was raised as to
whether the article was written by a "13 year old" or something.

Originally posted by 2inquisitive
Occam's Razor sounds very impressive. It just means the least complicated explanation that
will fully explain an event is usually the perferred one. I wasn't
aware that even one explanation existed so far. Perhaps you
could enlighten me?

Yea, 3 come immediately to mind;
a. He was beaten
b. He got drunk and had a fall
c. He is a nutter that made it all up.

Look - outside of the flimsy evidence on his website (all particulars redacted) - there is ZERO evidence that this guy was abducted at all.

So...besides the illogical basis for ALL claims of Alien Abduction we have NO real evidence here. What is a rational mind to make of all this?

Can't these people swipe something off the damn spaceship already? :rolleyes:

Barkhorn.

I think this is one possible scenario for his physical condition:

http://www.vgcats.com/vgc_comics/?strip_id=67

Darn, somebody already beat me to correctly the 'profoundly vs. profusely' mistake. Shucks.

---

BigBlueHead: That was great...:P

"Foolish men mistake transitory semblance for eternal fact" (Thomas Carlyle)

I read the article up until this sentence: "To begin, what do you call 'reality?'"
Then I stopped reading.

Damnit! I find a perfectly good groinal bleeding comic to link to, and what do I get? Proxy Thomas Carlyle bitch-down from beyond the grave. See if ever I find a bleeding balls cartoon for you again, sargentlard.

(Chances were I wasn't going to find one for you again anyway, so not much loss there.)

BTW, thanks Ozy. Have you ever met a traveler from an antique land?

No more words about Mr. Mortellaro? I'd like to hear an alternative to my leeches theory.

I was thinking of something like an unreported auto accident. An intense head-on
collision could cause injuries to the bladder from a seatbelt and if his head also hit the
steering wheel, injuries to the upper nose and sinus area could occur. Perhaps the
head injury gave Dr. Mortellaro amnesia and he doesn't remember the accident. Just
speculation on my part, I haven't read anything new on the case.

Not very convincing at all. Firstly, the rambling, disjointed prose. Not a focussed individual, but rather one who like the sound of their own voice, an attention seeker.

How come nobody other than the abductee ever witnesses the event? It's a bit rosky, entering someone's home, but somehow, aliens can do this undetected, entering by dissolving walls with beams of blue light, and nobody sees a single thing.

Why do they keep coming for the same guy, over and over? If it's genetic research, as he proposes, they can learn everything they need from one blood sample, and clone him. They can then perform the experiments on the clone. his assertion doesn't really make sense.

He's not a well man. Suffers from IBS, and has had frequent nightmares since he was a child. It's well known that stomach disorderd in children allow proteins through the stomach wall ito th ebloodstream befire they can be metabolised. Once in the bloodstream, they get to teh brain, and can cause mood swings, hallucinations, in fact, everything this guy reports. Taken alongside the fact that he suffers from IBS as an adult, I think we have a more credible explanation awaiting us.

Regression 'therapy' is flawed and discredited. It's been thoroughly debunked as it is leading, and creates false memories. This accounts for the skeptics who had supposedly abducted, the act of regression places the memories there, the method is fundamentally flawed.

Many cases of 'abduction'' can also be explained by temporal lobe epilepsy. The symptoms match exeactly. Add regression hypnosis onto this, and a little predisposition, and you'll get your abduction.

I knew a girl who was a little unstable, who was religious. She was assualted nightly bu demons, not aliens, it turned out, after hypnosis. Odd folks see what they believe in under hypnosis, isn't it?

As for the 'medical report', well, to be taken with a pinch of salt, as just a transcript, with all the names and places that would aid it's verification removed. I would have expected a scan of the real thing at least. Of course, even if this guy had been admitted, thet wouln't lead us to the cause being aliens, necessarily.

The smelly rat in the whole report though, is the allusion to 'lost time' which is often claimed by abductees;

" but was about five hours off on the time. He thought the time was about 6 PM. It was close to midnight. "

But the opening line was;

"Mr. Mortellaro was unconscious"

No, once you've lost consciousness, or even just fallen asleep, you lose track of time. This is why we keep alarm clock by our beds, folks, and check them when we wke up, to see what time it is, as never have clue. So, the time thing, is expected, but adds nothing, apart from a whiff of lost time mystery.

My take? Just another loon looking for attention.

There isn't a single item in your post that mitigates or lessens any of the assertions to which you refer. I see just a bunch of facts thrown together in order to drown a thread at first blush with distraction, innuendo and overt unabashed bias. It is either your job to post material like you did, and/or you have a loathing for exposure to any concept of alien contact with our planet.

Many cases of 'abduction'' can also be explained by temporal lobe epilepsy. The symptoms match exeactly. Add regression hypnosis onto this, and a little predisposition, and you'll get your abduction.

What do you mean that [it] " . . . can also be expalined by . . ."? If I explain flight using principles of aerodynamics have I trashed the airplane industry? If I exlain love, does thagt mean it will go away? I would really like to know what critical value a statement like that has in determining the truth of a matter, but then maybe tha is the problem, he truth of the matter, I mean. How many temporal lobe epileptics suffer from the syndrome described here, that you know of, and how does that information negate what is asserted here? It appears to me that you areeremarkably familiar, not as someone I know pesonally, but of a class of people that argue along lines laid down as you did here. There is a smell that a substanitial number of people have been trained to trash any and all discussion of alien contact, among other restricted iems of discussion.

Do you have religious convictions that motiates you to respnd as you did?, political? social? What are you trying to trash here? What conceivable harrm should we fear for the unfettered discussion of alien contact? The author of the thread doesn't project hmself as unstable, pathological, antisocial and I am sure he isn't a Communist. Is it a lack o curiosity, committment to a reducitonist scientific manifesto, what? Why do you respond in a manner that can have only one logical and rational end: The termination of discussion of alien contacts.

Well said Geist.
The effort some of these skeptics put into a topic they hold no interest or personal meaning in is scary to tell you the truth.
However, the topic of abductions gives me some insight as to what some of the more cautious and rational skeptics may feel on the subject of ET's.
I have seen crafts with my own eyes witha freind.
I beleive in the existance of alien visitation.
Abduction however is a topic I choose more to deny more emotionally than intellectually.
Again, abduction in my opinion is very likely, but integrating this as a beleif puts me in a place of fear.
I choose not to accept this as a part of my daily reality because of the state of fear it instills.
Even talking about it now is not very nice, considering some of the abduction stories are not very nice.
I beleive in abduction, but I do not wish to pursue this beleif, as stated above.
If there was a God, abduction would have to be one of THE greatest crimes.
Sorry 2inquisitive, that I cannot and will not share this topic in general with you.
I sound like a wuss., but unfortunately I'm serious.
Peace Out.

Then there is that famous case of the abduction that took place some twenty four hundred years ago. But then Elijah was taken by the GoodET’s, not the BadET’s

(Sorry, I couldn't help myself.)

The effort some of these skeptics put into a topic they hold no interest or personal meaning in is scary to tell you the truth.

What a weird thing to think... not only would the presence of aliens have a deep interest and personal meaning for me, but it's not within my interest to deny the existence of other intelligent beings in the universe.

My interest in contributing to these conversations (although I was gagging with this one i.e. not serious) usually has to do with the idea that a person's abduction experiences should be believed because (1) they fit some kind of Communion concept of what aliens should be like, and (2) they really really really believe that it happened.

If Mr. Mortellaro is (as is apparently so) a chronically ill person, and passed out and was found in a serious condition, then it shouldn't be immediately imputed to outside intervention. If he saw some things during the time that he was passed out, these sights should also not be accepted at face value.

Why not? Well... have you ever talked to someone who is recovering from a general anaesthetic? They say all kinds of peculiar things; their mind is not in a 100% rational state. Similar effects can be witnessed in someone who is suffering from any kind of blood toxicity, such as that caused by liver or kidney damage; often, when people die slowly as from old age, they will be irrational for a long period of time and talk as if they were in other places, like those they remember from their pasts.

Consequently, if Mr. Mortellaro saw things while he was unconscious, it would be premature in the extreme to assume that they actually happened, given his medical history.

Thus, my interest in this "abduction story" is minimal; the fact that Hypnotic Regression was trucked out in support of it removes any credibility it might have had. (Since evidence given while under hypnosis is not accepted in court... leading questions, like "tell me about the time you were abducted by aliens" can lead people to "remember" things that have never happened to them.)

The story of Mr. Mortellaro in no way advances our knowledge of ETs or their presence on Earth. He is just a guy who said a thing.

I have typed up medical reports for years. That report is bogus.

Profoundly..., LOL.

As for the guy having IBS, big deal. Half the population has it just about.