U.S. Senate approved--51 to 49--drilling for oil in that section of the Alaskan Wildlife Refuge set aside for development when ANWR was created. About time. Three Democrats voted yea. Only way to stop it now is for the entire budget bill to be defeated. Estimated production of one million barrels a day will provide 5% of current U.S. needs. At that rate, the known reserves in ANWR will be producing for 28.5 years. The Alaskan pipeline is running at about 50% capacity and can handle the added oil easily. Articles on the vote: Senate votes to open oil drilling in Alaska(AP via The Guardian) Teamsters Hail Bipartisan Senate Vote Supporting ANWR Oil and Gas ... Teamsters represent many of the workers in Ohio, West Virginia, Pennsylvania and elsewhere in the lower 48 who will built the equipment needed to develop and maintain the fields. Jobs in Alaska are a small part of the reason for union support.
Huh? If anything this will help the environnment. Wildlife herds have more than doubled since Prudhoe bay, right next to ANWR, was developed. Demand in China, India and elsewhere means oil will be extracted from some place. Better it is done in the USA with our technology and our controls rather than in Russia, Africa, the Gulf and Indonesia where pollution controls, which ones exist at all, are far looser? While rank and file environmentalists may not know, the leadership of the groups which opposed drilling in ANWR know the environment was cover for other agendas. Charles Schumer who has been filibustering the issue is tight with the Russian oligarchs. He and the AJCongress petitioned Bush to import more oil from Russia. Then Schumer attended the opening of the first Russian gas station in America and declared Russian oil a "win-win" for the consumer. Schumer's buddy Mikhail Khodorkovsky,the former CEO of Yukos, which owned that gas station is now in prison awaiting trial for stealing billions from the Russian people. Anyone doubt if the books of the Sierra Club and other environmental groups were opened up some names from Russian and Gulf States would surface? Anyone doubt crooks such as Marc Rich have an interest in seeing America produces the least oil possible?
Help..the...environment...? I guess you forgot about the Exxon Valdez oil spill. Wildlife has still not recovered from that. Why do you think wildlife herds (herds of what?) have doubled after development? Are they setting out bales of hay for the Caribou? Caribou avoid the pipelines by 3-4 miles. The pipelines leak, there are minor spills there every day. So, since China, India, etc.. need oil, it's better that we destroy our own protected areas instead? I don't buy that argument, Those countries have nothing like ANWR, and besides, the motive for this isn't altruistic, it's profit. Let those countries do what they want. I don't buy your bullshit about environmentalists, either. Attacking the character of one Democrat is the modus operandi of the Bush crime family. Environmental groups that oppose drilling in ANWR do so because they care about the unspoiled wilderness. Every scientist not employed by the oil industry agrees that development there will be a detriment to the wilderness, like it has been along 90% of the Alaskan coastline that IS open to drilling. The oil produced there would be minimal anyway. One thing I do know is that the Bush administration and the oil industry are one and the same. Why don't we invest in oil alternatives? I can tell you, because there's no money in it for the oil industry, and they ARE now the government. "What we have here is a unique place in the world. It is a wilderness ecosystem, it's functioning in its natural way as it has for millennia. It has the most important on-shore denning area for polar bears. It has this tremendous aggregation of caribou that have their young there, raise their young there, and it has tundra swans that come from as far as Chesapeake Bay, all in this narrow, diverse area with the spectacular Brooks Range behind it. And to say that you can have an industrial complex in the biological heart of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and maintain for our children this unique refuge is just not true. There will be the miles of roads and pipelines that the secretary has described. There have been declines in the caribou herd at Prudhoe Bay. There is disturbance of the roads and the pipelines seen by the caribou, and you simply cannot impose this kind of a complex. I've worked on the wildlife refuge as a biologist, and I've spent a lot of time in Prudhoe Bay, and I've seen for myself what you have in the oil fields and in the spectacular wilderness. " Pam Miller of the Wilderness Society, over proposed oil drilling in an Alaskan Refuge
The only true environmentalists run around naked in the woods eating grass, berries, tree roots and dead animals.
6. Dau, J.R., and R.D. Cameron. 1986. Effects of a road system on caribou distribution during calving. Rangifer, Special Issue No. 1:95-101. 7. Cameron, R.D., D.J. Reed, J.R. Dau, and W.T. Smith. 1992. Redistribution of calving caribou in response to oil field development on the arctic slope of Alaska. Arctic. 45:338-342. 8. Smith, W.T., R.D. Cameron, and D.J. Reed. 1994. Distribution and movements of caribou in relation to roads and pipelines, Kuparuk Development Area, 1978-1990. ADF&G, Wildl. Tech. Bull. 12. 54pp. 9. Nelleman, C., and R.D. Cameron. 1996. Terrain preferences of calving caribou exposed to petroleum development. Arctic 49:23-28. 10. Nellemann, C., and R.D. Cameron. 1998. Cumulative impacts of an evolving oilfield complex on calving caribou. Can. J. Zool. 76:1425-1430. 11. Wolfe, S.A. 2000. Habitat selection by calving caribou of the Central Arctic Herd, 1980-95. M.S. Thesis, University of Alaska Fairbanks, AK. 83 pp.
Gaia is one. The earth is a unitary whole. Pollution in Russia affects the entire organism. Gaia weeps when oil is spilled and not cleaned up in Africa and the Gulf States. Much better for Gaia if Americans drill on American land with American technology and American pollution controls than for Russians and Africans to produce oil for us with Gawd knows what controls (if any). And yes, there is rot in the environazi movement. There is Big Money there and Big Payoffs to stop America from developing its own resources. The left could care less about the environment. When they aren't blocking drilling because of payoffs from foreign interests they are blocking it in the deluded view the world will be better off if economies are equalized by coercion and the American standard of living reduced. Democratic Congresscritter Ed Markey is most upset with today's vote: “The American people believe there should be some places on this earth left the way the Almighty made them in the first place. When we finally meet our Maker, we are not going to be asked our position on evolution or the Big Bang. We are going to be asked about what we did to protect the resources we were given. The Congress still has time to pull back from this folly, and we must do everything we can to see that it does.” Whatever happened to separation of Church and State? Is Markey trying to create a theocracy in America? When liberals start talking about God and "our Maker" I get chills. It could be a sign. A sign of the final days.
You can buy a hell of a lot of studies "proving" drilling is ANWR is bad with the type of money Mikhail Khodorkovsky, Marc Rich, George Soros and other special interests have to throw around, spidergoat. How come we rarely see studies showing drilling in Russia, the Gulf States and Africa is bad for the environment? Why is it always the USA? We do have the best, cleanest technology in the world and very tight controls. When American companies do make a mess , they clean it up. How come your experts, spidergoat, aren't that concerned about the mess in Baku, Nigeria or Angola?
Most often only after they are dragged into court to force the issue. Oil industry estimates say 10 billion barrels are available, the U.S. government has estimated less than 5 billion barrels. According to the US Department of Energy, we used 7.2 billion barrels of oil in 2000, (19.7 million barrels of petroleum/day x 365 days/year => 7190 million) and we know consumption has increased since. A year or so after they begin pumping, we'll be back where we started. This does not even take into account the intervening years that will be required to create the infrastructure necessary to extract the oil. What will our consumption levels be then? Why is drilling a better option than decreasing usage by, say, 5%? :m: Peace.
So, your motivations for supporting the exploration in ANWR are environmental? That's the funniest thing I've ever heard. Anyway, we can't control what they do in Russia, they will probably drill there no matter what the United States does. Oil exploration is bad for the environment wherever it happens. The fact is there is no shortage of oil, and what they find in Alaska is destined to be sold to Japan, NOT decrease our dependance on foriegn oil. I'm all for independence from foriegn oil, but I don't think the answer is to plow on finding more fossil fuels, especially in environmentally sensitive areas. Why don't they look in New Jersey? Much more could be done with regulating the effeciency of automobiles, and other sources of consumption. Democrats and Republicans are free to express themselves with regard to religion. Separation of Church and State refers to the state instituting policies that promote religion. I know you are trying to be funny, because it's the Republicons that are actively eroding the church-state separation.
How come your experts, spidergoat, aren't that concerned about the mess in Baku, Nigeria or Angola? Because our laws don't affect those areas. It is an environmental concern, though, as much as anywhere else.
The economy is growing at 4% a year. Americans would have to decreases consumption by that just to stay where we are. To make up what you want us not to get from ANWR and to fuel current growth , we would have to conserve far more than 5%. But we can't without tanking the economy and killing growth. We don't get all our supply from Texas either. So should we shut down production in Texas and conserve the energy Texas produces instead? Makes no sense not to extract oil sitting under a barren wasteland. The figures are estimated reserves. The history of that is they are always on the low side. But even if they aren't so what? Why not conserve what we can and produce what we can? And why send $50 million plus out of America? If reserves are only 10 billion barrels, why spend $50 billion plus to foreign countries?
Oil won't matter at all if global warming causes widespread drought. Warming caused by the burning of fossil fuels. A major source of water for China India and Nepal, the Himalayan glaciers, are receding fast.
Oil isn't a renewable resource. It's like an addiction. Of course, without it, the way of life we have become used to would be impossible, but we have to start planning for change; joining a twelve step program, not finding a better dealer.
ANWAR drilling will take 10 years from start date to even show results, and even then, the oil won't even last a full year at 1mbd output, which is the max additional oil the Alaskan Pipeline is capable of delivering. Even if the politics come through, that speaks nothing of the geology. Big Oil not interested in drilling in ANWAR ANWAR isn't going to lower oil prices today. It's important to understand that. Assuming all goes well, It will hedge fuel prices in the future, for 6-8 months of duration. The problem is that global oil production has peaked and is set to go into terminal decline, and there's really little we can do about it other than stall for time. The Long Fingers of Petroleum
I'm just curious, of course, but ...... What the hell good are all of those animals up there to anyone? Please ....I am being very, very serious. Most people will never, ever go up there to see those animals or the land, most won't even watch tv about it. The best that anyone might, just MIGHT do is go see them at a zoo. Please tell me ....what the hell good are those animals in the ANWR? Baron Max
Good question, Baron Max. I wonder the same thing every day about the people living in the southern red states too. Let's just both get rid of em and the Alaskan wildlife. Life ain't precious, I guess. - N
Well, sure it is. But as a generalization, that statement means virtually nothing ...and certainly nothing on a philosophical forum like this one. "Life is precious" ...but if you've ever killed a cockroach or a mosquito or eaten beef, chicken or pork, then the term is strictly relative and to make it as a blanket statement is non-sense. As to getting rid of the rednecks in the south ...are you going to let the rednecks in the north or west or east get of scot-free? ;=) So, I'll ask again ....What good are those animals in the ANWR? And if you'd like, you can include why they're good for YOU. Baron Max
It's not just the animals, it's the whole ecosystem. It's beautiful. That's enough of a reason. When you are all done raping the Earth for fuel, we will all wake up and look around, and see that we have made the Earth into a place that's not worth living in. The oil won't last, but the ecosystem up there was millions of years in the making, and when it's gone it's gone FOREVER. What's the use of oil, I could ask? To drive us to work, to make money, to afford a car, to buy more products, all for what? So you can retire, and drive around in an RV...to see what? Oh...that's right, the beauty of this great land, which will be gone if the oil barons have their way- except for tiny, pathetic, disneyfied patches of tamed symbolic wilderness surrounded by gas stations and tacky souvenier shops. What's the use of Mozart, or Michaelangelo, or Jimi Hendrix? The best things in life have no use.
Oh, yes, the ANWR is lovely, beautiful. But then ...would you happen to know just how many vacation visitors went to ANWR in the last year or so? ..or even the last 50 years? I see it all, like many things, as a balance between issues ...not just one single issue. Addressing the issue of ANWR, without including the issues of the reality of the need for fuel, is just farting into the wind. So now ....What good is ANWR if no one ever goes there to see it? Baron Max
