Source: SeattleTimes.com (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/)
Link: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004126967_apmncraigaclu15.html
Title: "ACLU argues in Craig case that airport restroom sex is private", by Associated Press
Date: January 15, 2008

Um ... okay. We'll see how this goes.

In an effort to help Idaho Sen. Larry Craig, the American Civil Liberties Union is arguing that people who have sex in public bathrooms have an expectation of privacy ....

.... The ACLU wrote that a Minnesota Supreme Court ruling 38 years ago found that people who have sex in closed stalls in public restrooms "have a reasonable expectation of privacy."

That means the state cannot prove Craig was inviting the undercover officer to have sex in public, the ACLU wrote ....

.... The ACLU argued that even if Craig was inviting the officer to have sex, that wouldn't be illegal ....

.... The ACLU also pointed out that Craig was originally charged with interference with privacy. The ACLU said that was an admission by the state that people in the bathroom stall expect privacy.

(Associated Press (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004126967_apmncraigaclu15.html))

Amusing. They might actually have a case there.

Hmmm. I agree with it in principle, but stalls aren't that private.

what the hell is wrong with sex in public, there is a park on the edge of Melbourne CBD where you will see alot of couples descreatly going for it, where is the harm in that??

Open spaces are good:) beach is rubbish though, too much sand:(

It was a public restroom. Paid by the public. Theres nothing private about that.

i repeat my question "what is so wrong with sex in public????" its a natural act and public places offer more variaty

how many people have had sex on the beach?
in a car?
in a bush i a public park?

i can DEFINITLY answer yes to the second 2, havent at the beach because i dont like sand

i repeat my question "what is so wrong with sex in public????" its a natural act and public places offer more variaty

how many people have had sex on the beach?
in a car?
in a bush i a public park?

i can DEFINITLY answer yes to the second 2, havent at the beach because i dont like sand

theres nothing wrong with sex in public, Its just you shouldn't expect privacy.ergo, you shouldn't be able to get off charges for it.

my point was why should you be charged at all???

i have never seen a cop even care about people going for it in queens park (all though they may get a little peved if you tried to at the war mamorial) and i have seen cops there all the time. Same at the beach and unlike american movies i have never seen a cop charge someone for having sex in a car and i have done it myself a few times with cops fairly near by (did it next to a police station one time)

Its a natural thing to do why worry about it?

Would you show a kid pornography?

My daughter's five; I had a moment the other day when she walked in and I was reading one of Dan Savage's reports from a porn convention in Las Vegas (apparently Pauly Shore attended) (http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/more_vegas_pics).

Whoops.

(Kelly O's post at Slog is a good commentary on the Vegas convention (http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/5_days_is_too_long_to_be_in_vegas_and_xx#more))

Anyway, that's mild compared to, well, actual pornography, but still it was a strange moment. While Americans are particularly prudish about sex, I do think it's fair, as a general rule, to ask people to not copulate, fellatiate, &c. in public. My daughter doesn't need that scenery. Maybe it should be okay at taverns or something, but at the airport? I've had to take her into men's rooms before. It disgusts me. Not for the possibility of seeing a penis, but because men's rooms are filthy. The last thing she needs is a santorum-splattered toilet seat.

Don't get me wrong: I've had sex in public before. But ... come on, man. I don't ever want to be walking through the park and hear, "Oh, I'm sorry. Let me wipe that jism off your shoe." Or, "Oh, I'm sorry. Did I just get santorum on your leg?"

There are times and places for having sex in public. For instance, Volunteer Park, in Seattle, in the middle of the night.

It may be a natural thing to do, but I'm not going to fuck in front of my kid. And that's part of the responsibility of the risks we take. There comes a point at which we push it too far. An airport restroom is on the far side of that point.

Or so says me.

if a man and a woman decide to have sex anywhere they please, they must do so when unseen, and the law should be on their side and grant them private space at that location for a limited period of time for specifically sex

http://douglasavenue.com/bloggpx/animegirls/yuna/yunawetbigger.jpg

if a man and a woman decide to have sex anywhere they please, they must do so when unseen, and the law should be on their side and grant them private space at that location for a limited period of time for specifically sex

While there is no specific requirement that your posts make sense, it would help us understand your point if you do.

And, uh .... I think that image would make a fine exhibit for argument over in the pedophilia thread (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=76298).

Me and Stupid, skookum Stupid,
We got wailed on ginger ale
As flat as the Ferguson girls!

(Rheostatics, "Me and Stupid")

how many people have had sex on the beach?
in a car?
in a bush i a public park?

i can DEFINITLY answer yes to the second 2, havent at the beach because i dont like sand
How about on a merry go round? Or lane 2 at the school track? Behind the giant tanks at the BMI facility? In a farmer's field in the rain? In a swimming pool?

But certainly not in a public restroom. That's gross.

Source: SeattleTimes.com (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/)
Link: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004126967_apmncraigaclu15.html
Title: "ACLU argues in Craig case that airport restroom sex is private", by Associated Press
Date: January 15, 2008

Um ... okay. We'll see how this goes.



Amusing. They might actually have a case there.
I think it is a waste of taxpayer money to try to catch people inviting other people to have sex in bathroom stalls. It is out of view and these are adults. No victims. I'd prefer that cop was out doing something else. For example, monitoring lobbyists.

tiassa if your discreate about it how would any kid know? Ive walked through the park and it just looks like people are laying on eachother. Its only after you become sexual active yourself and you KNOW what your looking at that you can tell. personally i would rather have my kids (when i get them) exposed to that sort of enviroment than one where people are drunk and starting fights and throwing beer bottles ect.

"But certainly not in a public restroom. That's gross."

you may find it gross but it doesnt harm you so who cares, would rather have that than drug uses in the stalls when i walk in. now THAT is a scary situation.

Seriously guys LIGHTEN UP about sex. There is nothing dirty about it and its not going to harm you for a couple to go at it AND it keeps the drug dealers away because they dont want people around when they are dealing

why i am all for public sex you shouldn't be trying to get your bone on in a public restroom that is just wierd

my point wasnt that it wasnt wierd (i would rather use my nice little corola). My point was why do you care? and why in gods name are you waisting police resorces on it? I always thought that movie were a guy gets arested along with a whole heep of gays doing each other at a rest stop because he had ACTUALLY stoped to have a piss (sorry the name of the movie doesnt come to mind) was a huge joke. Never realised that things like that actually HAPPENED. Arnt there enough real crimes for the police to worry about? Maybe they should be doing more random breath tests insted of trying to get people to pick them up for a quicky

Would you show a kid pornography?
Pornography is not sex. At least, none of the sex I have ever seen - admittedly as a participant, looks like the pornography I've seen. Thank God.

I wouldn't want my child to see someone ejaculate in a woman's face, for example. But if my kid happened to hear someone having sex in a public bathroom stall or over on the other side of the beach the couple making out, well, it seemed like more than that, or caught a glimpse through steaming up car windows of a breast or a man making a death grimace but sounding happy about it, nah. Not a big problem.

my point wasnt that it wasnt wierd (i would rather use my nice little corola). My point was why do you care? and why in gods name are you waisting police resorces on it? I always thought that movie were a guy gets arested along with a whole heep of gays doing each other at a rest stop because he had ACTUALLY stoped to have a piss (sorry the name of the movie doesnt come to mind) was a huge joke. Never realised that things like that actually HAPPENED. Arnt there enough real crimes for the police to worry about? Maybe they should be doing more random breath tests insted of trying to get people to pick them up for a quicky

well it is to disrupting i mean imagine your try to take a crap but you hear some one moaning in the next stall over yeah baby harder harder that would bother you would it not. you need to pick places where it minamizes other people stumbling on to you.

you REALLY need to go to melbourne, I have seen people going for it lying on the grass in the middle of the park. As i said i would much rather the police were out doing random breath testing than prostitution and sex in public stings. Seriously the cops need to get a life

seriously though where can the homeless have sex in your sociaty? or do there drinking? that is actually a social justice issue you know

you REALLY need to go to melbourne, I have seen people going for it lying on the grass in the middle of the park. As i said i would much rather the police were out doing random breath testing than prostitution and sex in public stings. Seriously the cops need to get a life

i wish the states were that free.

you REALLY need to go to melbourne, I have seen people going for it lying on the grass in the middle of the park. ....

I'd be throwing a holy hissy fit. My kids don't need to see that. I don't let them watch porn movies, so why would it be ok for them to watch it in the park?

Same with the bathroom stall. People take their kids in there.

my point was why should you be charged at all???

i have never seen a cop even care about people going for it in queens park (all though they may get a little peved if you tried to at the war mamorial) and i have seen cops there all the time. Same at the beach and unlike american movies i have never seen a cop charge someone for having sex in a car and i have done it myself a few times with cops fairly near by (did it next to a police station one time)

Its a natural thing to do why worry about it?

Park, theres plenty of space, Car, its your space, beach plenty of space, Bathroom...other people may want to sit on it, without feeling sticky. Also, its a public facility, not a place.

I'd be throwing a holy hissy fit. My kids don't need to see that. I don't let them watch porn movies, so why would it be ok for them to watch it in the park?

Same with the bathroom stall. People take their kids in there.

While i don't agree with Asguard's allowance of sex in bathroom stalls, I don't see why couples can't flaunt their desires in parks. If people don't like it, they can petition for "no sex" signs, or move to another park.

or they can be arrested or go have sex in a private spot.

Does anyone really need to see a bunch of 16 yrs old boys masturbating as they watch people have sex in the park???

this is the problem with religion in the states it makes people afraid of their bodies and some makes people think that natrual things are dirty

yeah and so is pooping. Wanna watch people do that?

yeah and so is pooping. Wanna watch people do that?

Some people actually do.. I don't, but people apparently are up for anything.

yeah and so is pooping. Wanna watch people do that?

no but with enough liquer some people will do anything

Some people actually do.. I don't, but people apparently are up for anything.

and I don't wanna watch people have sex in the park. Wanna see a guy go down on another guy in the park? Is there a limit as to what kind of sex you are willing to see in the park? Wanna watch your grandparents?

and I don't wanna watch people have sex in the park. Wanna see a guy go down on another guy in the park? Is there a limit as to what kind of sex you are willing to see in the park? Wanna watch your grandparents?

In time, given enough exposure, people will think thats normal. Maybe we should start designating parks.

maybe we should start designating their homes. oh wait....

I'm not against public sex, I like public sex, but come on! There's a difference between a blanket out in the woods and a blanket in the middle of a public park. There's a difference between the bed of your truck in the middle of no where and a public bathroom stall.
When you have sex, you'll understand.

yeah and so is pooping. Wanna watch people do that?
As long as they do it in the privacy of a bathroom stall I'd probably only hear the moaning.

and I don't wanna watch people have sex in the park. Wanna see a guy go down on another guy in the park? Is there a limit as to what kind of sex you are willing to see in the park? Wanna watch your grandparents?
The dead ones, or the ones who've never met.
I'd have to choose the latter though I am sure it would be strange for my parents.

As long as they do it in the privacy of a bathroom stall I'd probably only hear the moaning.

moaning? that's it?
heck, they might as well be having sex in the changing rooms at Wal-Mart.

Leges Sine Moribus Vanae. The ACLU seems to have lost sight of its intended purpose.http://www.sciforums.com/images/icons/icon13.gif

There isn't enough privacy in a public restroom, for those wishing to avoid the sex.

You can't allow hitting on people, pushing them for sex etc, in a place where they can't avoid it.

Consent, folks. It's why streetwalking should be zoned or banned regardless of the the legality of prostitution, why loud avoidable noise should be banned from residential roads, etc.

The ACLU has a point, but not a case.

And the public health issue is still to be weighed in.

Sex columnist and editor of The Stranger Dan Savage weighed in today with a reminder about public sex:

Sigh.

Public sex is hot because it’s… public. It’s risky, you might get caught, someone might see you, blah blah blah. A pair of toilet cruisers may go out of their way to avoid getting caught—they may be quiet and stealthy and creep into each other’s stalls on tiptaptoe—but the off chance that they’ll be heard by someone else in a neighboring stall or seen through the cracks in the stall door by someone walking past is an integral part of the charge.

(Savage (http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/public_sex_environments_really_private_s))

Part of the problem with desensitizing the American prudishness is that we tend, as a culture, to forego any complicated formulae for wisdom, which leads to a dysfunctional insensitivity to sexual stimuli (http://suicidegirls.com/news/culture/22595/).

Maybe in other countries bending someone over a park bench and burying it to the hilt is a good idea, and a good show for the kids. But we're Americans, and in general we never really have outgrown our Puritan naivete.

Think of it in a fairly exaggerated term: Fine. So you say masturbation isn't evil. Whatever. I guess that means compelling retarded people to shit on one another is just fine, too.

What I'm getting at is that the American Puritan (lack of) sensibility has trouble understanding certain things. Just because people don't think adultery is a sin against God doesn't mean we thing it's not wrong. If you want to sleep around, don't get married. If you made the mistake of getting hitched, either suck it up and endure your inadequate partner for the rest of your life, or get a freakin' divorce if it's really that important.

And, yes. It really is hard for many Americans to understand that there is a middle ground.

seriously though where can the homeless have sex in your sociaty? or do there drinking? that is actually a social justice issue you knowWhen you're homeless, and living on the street, where to have sex is probably one of your biggest problems. After all, women are just dying to have sex with homeless guys!
http://www.emilymagazine.com/ureview/ureview/images/greenpoint.jpg
Gimmi some Lovin'!

While I would personally object to anyone having sex in a public bathroom, I don't think it should be against the law.

While I would personally object to anyone having sex in a public bathroom, I don't think it should be against the law.I think it should be against the law, but I don't think the police should be setting up sting operations to catch people.

First and formost i would like to point out there is a difference between desreatly laying on eachother and going for it and bending someone over a park bench. For god sake you guys are conflicted. On one hand you say sex is something dirty that should be kept secret like tinia and on the other you all get pitures of people bening over park benches

Now on to the rest

madanthonywayne The reason i asked about homeless people is because it is actually concidered a social justice issue as to where homeless people can drink in SA. The same would go for sex. If its a legal activity they have the same right to do it as you do wether you would do it WITH them or not. If they can get laid good on them, why should your distate for the idea mean they must be celibate. Sex is a natural urge for ALL sexual species INCLUDING humans, its only the religious nuts that have made it a dirty word. Look around, do you see chickens hiding sex from there chicks? what about chimps? Just because they do it around kids doesnt mean they do it WITH kids


How many of you have kids??
when those kids were babies how many of you slept with them in the same room?
How many of you walked around naked in front of those babies?
HOW MANY OF YOU HAD SEX WITH THE BABIES COT IN THE SAME ROOM?

You dont have to answer just think about it
we spend to much time persicuting sex rather than the real problems in our sociaty LIKE DRINK DRIVING

Americans think that being randomly breath tested is police harrasment but stings to catch you having sex isnt????????????
come on

madanthonywayne The reason i asked about homeless people is because it is actually concidered a social justice issue as to where homeless people can drink in SA. The same would go for sex.What's SA?
If its a legal activity they have the same right to do it as you do wether you would do it WITH them or not. If they can get laid good on them, why should your distate for the idea mean they must be celibate. I never said they had to be celibate. Most big cities have rooms you can rent by the hour. Or there's bushes. I'm just not in favor of bathroom sex. It's a small space. It's disgusting enough already with semen stains to add to it!
Americans think that being randomly breath tested is police harrasment but stings to catch you having sex isnt?
I actually agree that the police shouldn't waste time on that. Unless there'd been a complaint or something.

South Australia, we were having a debate about tighter restrictions on public drinking and it became a social justice issue when people realised that not everyone has access to a home or will be allowed on licensed premise because of there appearance. The same thing applies in this case as well

And who said they could afford a room at a hotel? To be perfectly honest i really don't care if you want to ban sex in public toilets, I just think its a silly attitude when your fine with parks. For those who don't want there kids exposed to sex (which wouldn't surprise me with some of the sex ED programs America runs) at least a toilet door has a lock on it unlike a bush. I seriously have to wonder how many of you have gone to a restaurant and had a quickie in the toilets. Americans are to prudish for my liking. Do you know that SHINE (the South Australian sexual health organisation) actually provides a list of prostitutes who will cater to people with physical and mental disabilities. I bet there is nothing like that in the US

The other matter is that of police resources and i DEFINITLY agree with you that there are better things for them to be doing than stings of this nature.

I don't think kids are actually all that disturbed by sex. Its the parents who don't want to answer awkward questions. Kids more so little ones will understand anything given an explaination. I work with little kids they never argue about anything I tell them.

Americans think that being randomly breath tested is police harrasment but stings to catch you having sex isnt?

You're looking at a couple of different issues there.

Random breath tests are, as the argument goes, are improper seizure of evidence without cause. This is prohibited by the United States Constitution (Fourth Amendment (http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.billofrights.html#amendmentiv)).

Police stings regarding sex? Now that's another issue. At present, it is illegal to have sex in certain places. If the ACLU wins its argument, what will happen is that Larry Craig's guilty plea will be thrown out, and the airport will simply establish a rule on its property that you can't have sex in the bathroom. What happens then is that if there is a persistent problem, the police will start hanging out and busting people who break the rule. The only reason the police were working that scene in the first place is because there was, allegedly, an ongoing problem. This is how the police operate. They do the same thing with traffic issues. If there's a stretch of road where people are constantly speeding or driving dangerously, the police start targeting the area. Admittedly, there are still rapes and murders taking place, but if you're going to be writing speeding tickets at all, you might as well go to where there's actually a problem.

There are some sex stings that are just ridiculous. With everything else going on in Seattle, the police actually set up an escort service a couple years ago, and busted the customers.

How many of you have kids??
when those kids were babies how many of you slept with them in the same room?
How many of you walked around naked in front of those babies?
HOW MANY OF YOU HAD SEX WITH THE BABIES COT IN THE SAME ROOM?

I protest the grouping of these questions. Specifically the second and third. As to the fourth, I actually don't remember. I would hope not, since the sex wouldn't have been that good, anyway. (I would say my girlfriend didn't know how to f@ck, except that, in the strictest functional sense, that would be untrue, as the presence of my daughter suggests.)

However, to address those questions:

• My daughter is five, and I long ago stopped trying to keep her from sleeping beside me. It unsettles her mother, but I don't care about that. In fact, I generally don't worry about it at all (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/23/health/23well.html).

• It is almost inevitable that my daughter sees me in various states of undress. The point is that I don't make a big deal out of it. So I don't lock doors behind me, don't yell at her to stay away. My whole theory is that the less emphasis I put on the sexual aspects of our bodies, the less emphasis she will put on them.

And that last is why I protest the grouping of the questions. Our bodies simply are. Tying simple nakedness to sexuality suggests that you have not yet escaped some of the presuppositions you're criticizing. Or, at least, tying simple nakedness to sexuality is symptomatic of the prudishness you're criticizing.

Like I said, there are times and places for sex in public. But there's also such a thing as good taste. What's the difference to you, for instance, if "it just looks like people are laying on each other" or bending someone over a park bench? Why be discrete, if it's no big deal?

And as to social justice: I hear you, man. Really, I do. But there is no inalienable right to get laid.

On the one hand, I wish there was. To the other, though, that would take all the fun out of it.

• • •


I don't think kids are actually all that disturbed by sex. Its the parents who don't want to answer awkward questions. Kids more so little ones will understand anything given an explaination. I work with little kids they never argue about anything I tell them.

First off, welcome to the insane asylum. We hope you enjoy your time with us. To the other, well ....

Have you ever seen two men having sex with each other? Even as one who enjoys being on the receiving end, I don't find the sight of it particularly pretty. While I've never been truly brutally reamed, I don't recall it ever being delicate and gentle, the way I always had to be with my last female partner. Hell, I can take it harder than she can. Of all the things I would imagine myself reasonably prepared for, explaining the sight of two men engaged in anal sex is not on the list. Neither am I confident I could give a good explanation of fellatio.

On the off-chance that it comes up, since I probably won't be able to get hold of you in the moment and ask your advice, have you any suggestions on either of those counts?

tiassa personally I dont care about nuidy. Mum used to shower with my sister to save water untill she was to old for them both to fit in the shower (so yes she was quite old)

My point is that in Australia we get American movies
nudity and sex seems to be abhorient to Americans where as vilonce is treated as normal and common place

Why is your sociaty that way?

surly it should be the other way around with sex and especially nudity being unimportant and vilonce being censored

For example when that singer pulled off her shirt and let her tits hang out the media reports were shown here here. The US media ripped her to shreads and why? For what good reason? why are americans so ashamed about there bodies??

yes tiassa i may have been a little harsh in putting nudity and sex together I never ment that being nude around your child had anything to do with anything sexual. I was trying to point out, badly it didnt.

Another thing, i have herd about some of the sex ED programs run in the US, where they ONLY teach about abstanance rather than SAFE sex. THAT sickens me not 2 people, old, young, ugly, fat, whatever having sex. The thought that people would rather have there kids catch, AIDS, STD's or teenage pregnancy rather than teach young people the facts of life

Sex is a natural act nothing dirty about it and the human body is a beautiful thing.

My point is that in Australia we get American movies
nudity and sex seems to be abhorient to Americans where as vilonce is treated as normal and common place

Why is your sociaty that way?

Puritans.

Really. Truly. It's a complicated thing, but we obsess ourselves with what we oppose. In the end, the prudes spend more time thinking about sex than the rest of us.

For example when that singer pulled off her shirt and let her tits hang out the media reports were shown here here. The US media ripped her to shreads and why? For what good reason?

Something like 95% of the Federal Communication Commission's obscenity complaints are generated within a fairly narrow band of people. The Janet Jackson episode was, perhaps, the culmination of a long process. The situation was bound to come to a head at some point.

As to the media, they just follow scandal because, in our prudish, Puritan sensibilities, scandal (and the opportunity to judge harshly) sells.

Another thing, i have herd about some of the sex ED programs run in the US, where they ONLY teach about abstanance rather than SAFE sex.

A bit I've posted about that a few times recently ... um ... where is it ...?

Oh, here it is. Okay, you can skip part of the post, but read through the long quote from Michelle Goldberg's talk in Seattle last year: #1586886/283 (http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1586886&postcount=283)

Sex is a natural act nothing dirty about it and the human body is a beautiful thing.

Well, right. But sometimes it's fun to be dirty. And that, incidentally, is part of the point of getting laid in a public restroom stall.

i have to go take my partner to the airport and i want a LOT of time to crush that piece of drivel so i will respond when i get back

Make sure you stop off for a quickie in the restroom.

OK I'm back (no we didn't have a quickie, my partner is terrified of flying so i spent the time comforting her actually)

I would like to start by giving you a link to sHine http://www.shinesa.org.au/
This is the South Australian sexual health organisation

I was going to copy some of the curriculum but i have decided its to complicated for me to copy so if anyone wants to check my parphrasing please check the word document under teaching resources on that website

Now some of the things covered in Sexual health (in no particular order)
Relationships
Harassment
Homophobia
STD's
A&P of the reproductive organs both male and female
Options for unwanted pregnancies including ABORTION
Religious and cultural views of sex

Now on to your religious nutcase

Firstly i would LOVE to see a defamation suit brought by Ansell or Four Seasons against that drivel

Secondly Doesn't that breach the constitution? I thought the constitution divided church and state and banned religions from public schools. If Christmas is banned because its a religious festival then the lies (out of he own mouth) she is teaching kids in public school because "sex before marriage is a sin" would DEFINITLY contrive that ban.

Thirdly why is it you would rather have kids having sex WITHOUT protection because they don't feel that anything will protect them from STD's, AIDS and unwanted pregnancies

Fourthly Its no wonder you have such a high birth rate if this drivel is the normal sexual education

Fifthly how much pressure does that place on your economy because of the responsibility to care for all the AID's cases, treat the STD's and care for the unwanted children of parents who are only 14


My partner has a 16 year old friend. This friend dropped out of school before all the sex ED was taught. She has NEVER used a condom while having sex, she has had ATLEST 4 partners in the time i have known her so god knows what she has caught. She also rings up my partner every month because she always things she is pregnant. When i first met her she thought that kissing was what got you pregnant, that the withdrawal method stopped pregnancy and a whole LIST of things. My partner has had to buy her the morning after pill 3 times.

Is this what you really want for your child?
I know every parent doesn't think there child is having sex, sorry to tell you but my partners 13 year old sister is probably having sex. She has also had at least 5 boyfriends in the last 2 years. I HOPE she knows what she is doing if she is.

There is no statistical evidence that abstanace programs actually work but safe sex programs DO work. would you rather your daughters first sexual experience be somewhere she felt safe or drunk and probably drugged in the back of some bar or bushes where she cant get help if she needs to???

What about emergency contraceptives?
How is the morning after pill dispensed in the US?
At the moment its an over the counter pharmacy medication, no prescription required (although the pharmacist will talk to you about the implications of the drug ect). when we first started having sex we had a condom break on a weekend. My partner walked up and they gave it to her on the spot, with only relevant questions asked.
Our FORMER health minister, Tony Abbot (a Christan nut) found out that it was being given to 13 year olds and wanted it made prescription only. He was overruled by people in his own right wing party who reminded him that if you take that option away, then there will be more teenage pregnancy

I have really pulled this thread off topic, I really couldn't care less if someone wants to have sex in a toilet, that's there decision but its the whole attitude that's the problem
Sex can be nice and dirty but it shouldn't be illegal. Anything done by consenting adults that doesn't HARM other people (no having sex in a toilet doesn't harm you) should be legal. There is a serious problem when the government starts interfering in peoples sex-life. They should give ACCURATE health information and then leave it up to the people involved as to what they want to do.

I was watching an episode of law and order, SVU last night. It was about this 17 year old (which was legal in that state) girl who had a disorder that not only stunted puberty but meant that she would go into menopause in less than 5 years. She wanted a child and had made that choice with her partner. The detectives persecuted her partner because he was sleeping with a girl who LOOKED like she was 10. He also physically assaulted his own 17 year old daughters BF. The shrink was constantly saying it was her choice and she should be free to make it in spite of what she looked like. i was thinking about this thread as i was watching it. I found it fascinating that Americans keep bleating about the rights of the individual but when it comes to sex you flip the whole way the other way

I read a story on here (tiassa, you probably posted it) a few years ago where a neighbor of a homosexual man called the police claiming that the mans house was being broken into. The police broke in and found the man and his partner having sex in there own home. You know what he did? he arrested them. How can a country that screams about Islamic women wearing headdress being illegal while if i walked naked down the street i would be arrested. How can a country that calls its self the home of the free arrest a couple in there own home because a homophobe lied to the police to get them to break in

"Oh, I'm sorry. Did I just get santorum on your leg?"

Just in case anyone was curious... (I was)...

http://www.spreadingsantorum.com/

At the outset, a note for Ben: Don't you wish you weren't?

Anyway, the reason I bring this up is actually sort of a reiteration of the point Ben was responding to, and also a comment on Asguard's inquiry about why Americans object to public sex. In the Seattle weekly tabloid The Stranger, we have a column called "I, Anonymous", which is allegedly written by readers at large who wish to get a certain something off their chest. Like the guy who wanted to let his roommate how much he appreciated the herpes, so he banged the roommate's sister as revenge, or something like that. It's usually kind of morbid.

But I read this week's edition and immediately thought of this discussion:

Okay, guys. I'm as big a fan of public sex as anyone. When you two business-suit-wearing boys went into the handicap stall of the men's bathroom together for a quickie at the hotel where I work, I didn't think it was a big enough deal to stop you. Next time I will. You two left your semen on the floor and walls of the stall. You're jacking and sucking not two feet from a roll of toilet paper and a convenient way to flush away the evidence. That's not convenient enough for you? You know who has to clean up your misplaced yuppie baby-gravy? A 90-pound grandmother and housekeeper had to get all of her biohazard business on to clean up your mess. Is it a fetish of yours to have senior-citizen ladies who make minimum wage clean your come off the walls and floor? Or is it your special way to say "fuck you" to the working class? So to all of you folks having public sex, please remember that public places need to be cleaned by someone, and no one is paid enough to clean up the ejaculate of strangers. So have some courtesy and wipe up afterward. Thanks.

(Anonymous (http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=541759))

I mean, when it was Bob Allen, I presumed he would have swallowed (or maybe taken it on the face and chest). It didn't occur to me with Larry Craig, to be honest. And, besides, a Wonkette article (http://wonkette.com/politics/larry-craig-sex-exclusive%21/exclusive-i-had-sex-with-larry-craig-314897.php) concerning another of Craig's alleged affairs includes talk of a condom, so I don't think anyone would have had to clean his seed off the bathroom wall in Minneapolis.

And that's the thing. Maybe condoms and facials are considered discreet in other countries. Maybe you just unload inside your partner, and that's fine with me. In fact ... oh, never mind. Suffice to say it's not the safest thing in the world to do unless you're in an extended, monogamous relationship.

Maybe it's not a big deal if you ejaculate on the grass at the park. I mean, there's lots of space, maybe nobody will step in it. The odds are probably in your favor that some kid won't come running through and slip on semen. But, you know, spraying the side of some stranger's BMW in the parking garage is a bit rude, and leaving it for a hotel custodial staff to clean up injects a certain classism into the issue. (Ha! Double pun!) The sheets are one thing. But the goddamn bathroom floor and walls?

And I mean, really, what are people supposed to say? "Stupid f@ckers!"
_________________

Notes:

Anonymous. "I, Anonymous". The Stranger. March 26, 2008. http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=541759

See Also:

Pony, P. Sparkle. "EXCLUSIVE: 'I Had Sex with Larry Craig!'" Wonkette. October 27, 2007. http://wonkette.com/politics/larry-craig-sex-exclusive%21/exclusive-i-had-sex-with-larry-craig-314897.php