From my understanding, Stalin was not Russian. He was Georgian.

What about the other members of the Soviet Kremlin? Were the majority Russian? Or were they mainly Ukrainian and Georgian?

Yeah he was Georgian, but he changed his name from Ioseb Jughashvili to Iosif Stalin to sound more Russian. He also spent alot of time in Siberia in his youth, which explains his insanity.

But most of the other members of the Politburo were Russian.

Robert Wilson, Russian correspondent of The Times, reported that the initial Soviet Cabinet (Council of People's Commissars of the Russian Soviet Federation of Socialist Republics, c.1920) was constituted as follows:

President Ulyanov (Lenin) Russian
Foreign Affairs Tchitcherine Russian
Nationalities Djugashvili (Stalin) Georgian
Agriculture Protian Armenian
Economic Council Lourie (Larine) Jew
Food Schlichter Jew
Army & Navy Bronstein (Trotsky) Jew
State Control Lander Jew
State Lands Kauffman Jew
Works V. Schmidt Jew
Social Relief E. Lelina (Knigissen) Jewess
Public Instruction Lounatcharsky Russian
Religions Spitzberg Jew
Interior Apfelbaum (Zinovief) Jew
Hygiene Anvelt Jew
Finance Isidore Goukovski Jew
Press Volodarski Jew
Elections Ouritski Jew
Justice I. Steinberg Jew
Refugees Fenigstein Jew

The composition by nationalities varied widely during the Soviet period. The prominence of Jews in the early period may in part be explained by the fact that the works of Marx and Engels were most widely read by their fellow Jews. Stalin undoubtedly enjoyed Jewish backing at first, even though his deadly rival Trotsky was Jewish. The Jews may have thought that they could handle him, and that as a Georgian he was an outsider, disconnected from Russian power structures, who would continue to need their support. It might be added that his wife was Jewish.

River Ape:

Thanks for that list! I was able to google it, and find an excellent site:

http://www.heretical.com/miscellx/bolshies.html


He reported that the Central Committee of the Bolshevik Party was made up as follows:


NAME NATIONALITY
Bronstein (Trotsky) Jew
Apfelbaum (Zinovief) Jew
Lourie (Larine) Jew
Ouritski Jew
Volodarski Jew
Rosenfeldt (Kamanef) Jew
Smidovitch Jew
Sverdlof (Yankel) Jew
Nakhamkes (Steklof) Jew
Ulyanov (Lenin) Russian
Krylenko Russian
Lounatcharski Russian

"The Council of the People's Commissars comprises the following:

MINISTRY NAME NATIONALITY
President Ulyanov (Lenin) Russian
Foreign Affairs Tchitcherine Russian
Nationalities Djugashvili (Stalin) Georgian
Agriculture Protian Armenian
Economic Council Lourie (Larine) Jew
Food Schlichter Jew
Army & Navy Bronstein (Trotsky) Jew
State Control Lander Jew
State Lands Kauffman Jew
Works V. Schmidt Jew
Social Relief E. Lelina (Knigissen) Jewess
Public Instruction Lounatcharsky Russian
Religions Spitzberg Jew
Interior Apfelbaum (Zinovief) Jew
Hygiene Anvelt Jew
Finance Isidore Goukovski Jew
Press Volodarski Jew
Elections Ouritski Jew
Justice I. Steinberg Jew
Refugees Fenigstein Jew
Refugees (assist.) Savitch Jew
Refugees (assist.) Zaslovski Jew



"The following is the list of members of the Central Executive Committee:

NAME NATIONALITY
Sverdlov (president) Jew
Avanessof (sec.) Armenian
Bruno Lett
Babtchinski Jew
Bukharin Russian
Weinberg Jew
Gailiss Jew
Ganzburg Jew
Danichevski Jew
Starck German
Sachs Jew
Scheinmann Jew
Erdling Jew
Landauer Jew
Linder Jew
Wolach Czech
Dimanstein Jew
Encukidze Georgian
Ermann Jew
Joffe Jew
Karkline Jew
Knigissen Jew
Rosenfeldt (Kamenef) Jew
Apfelbaum (Zinovief) Jew
Krylenko Russian
KrassikofSachs Jew
Kaprik Jew
Kaoul Lett
Ulyanov (lenin) Russian
Latsis Jew
Lander Jew
Lounatcharski Russian
Peterson Lett
Peters Lett
Roudzoutas Jew
Rosine Jew
Smidovitch Jew
Stoutchka Lett
Nakhamkes (Steklof) Jew
Sosnovski Jew
Skrytnik Jew
Bronstein (Trotsky) Jew
Teodorovitch Jew
Terian Armenian
Ouritski Jew
Telechkine Russian
Feldmann Jew
Froumkine Jew
Souriupa Ukranian
Tchavtchevadze Georgian
Scheikmann Jew
Rosental Jew
Achkinazi Imeretian
Karakhane Karaim (Jew)
Rose Jew
Sobelson (Radek) Jew
Sclichter Jew
Schikolini Jew
Chklianski Jew
Levine (Pravdine) Jew



"The following is the list of members of the Extraordinary Commission of Moscow:

NAME NATIONALITY
Dzerjinski (president) Pole
Peters (vice-president) Lett
Chklovski Jew
Kheifiss Jew
Zeistine Jew
Razmirovitch Jew
Kronberg Jew
Khaikina Jewess
Karlson Lett
Schaumann Jew
Leontovitch Jew
Jacob Goldine Jew
Glaperstein Jew
Kniggisen Jew
Latzis Lett
Schillenkuss Jew
Janson Lett
Rivkine Jew
Antonof Russian
Delafabre Jew
Tsitkine Jew
Roskirovitch Jew
G. Sverdlof Jew
Biesenski Jew
Blioumkine Jew
Alexandrevitch Russian
I. Model Jew
Routenberg Jew
Pines Jew
Sachs Jew
Daybol Lett
Saissoune Armenian
Deylkenen Lett
Liebert Jew
Vogel German
Zakiss Lett


I asked this question, because I find it rather interesting when people sass on the Russians for atrocities committed by the Soviet Union, especially during WWII. The fact of the matter is that Stalin was NOT Russian, he was Georgian. And the majority of the Kremlin were actually Jews.

If we use the logic of the Russaphobes, you'd come to the conclusion that Georgians and Jews are evil. After all, look at all the atrocities they committed during WW2...

Jew is not a country.

spurious:

Jew is not a country.

So?
Ir-fucking-relevant.

Jews constituted the majority of the Kremlin. So if we are to adopt the logic of the Russophobes, then JEWS are evil. After all, a majorly Jewish Kremlin gave the thumbs up for numerous atrocities during WWII, including the starvation of 7 million Ukranians.

Someone should show this to the Jews the next time they bitch about the Holocaust...

The original question is nationality. Jew is not a nationality.

You can just as well ask if stalin was catholic.

From my understanding, Stalin was not Russian. He was Georgian.
Wait, wasn't Georgia part of the Russian Empire in the 1870s? :confused:

Georgia is a totally different country from Russia. Georgians are all muslims, the reason why today there is distress in Chechnya (south Russia) is because Georgians are trying to carve more land out of Russia. Georgia follows the tactics and has the culture from Turkey, Russian enemy since Russia has became an actual country in 990 A.D. In my view of all the rulers, the jews were the best rulers of them all, unfortunately some of them were not humanly enough, some used their power and slaughtered regular men just for cock show. Of all the rulers in Russia, the actual russian nationality kings/czars/queens were the best ones, Elizabeth and Peter. Of all the presidents, the russian nationality presidents were also the best/fair rulers, Breszhnev and Putin. It seems thou that Russians (like me) do not trust much to their own rulers (except Putin...he is the KGB...so he can be trusted) so Russians try to get rulers from overseas and other countries. I can only hope that the next Russian president will be a russian born president and not from anywhere else.

Someone should show this to the Jews the next time they bitch about the Holocaust...
Wow! :eek: I find it amazing how some posters can appear for a long time to be reasonable, educated and rational people until suddenly they say something that makes them appear to be a complete asshole jerk. :bugeye:

Hapsburg:

Wait, wasn't Georgia part of the Russian Empire in the 1870s?

Georgia was once an independant country/kingdom, until it was 'conquered' (the King signed a treaty with Russia agreeing to its incorporation into the Russian Empire, but the vast majority were not happy with the proclaimation, which resulted in many anti-Russian rebellions).

Merely because Georgia was part of the Russian Empire/Soviet Union at one stage, does not mean that Georgians are ethnically Russians. Greece was once part of the Ottoman Turkish Empire... would you regard the Greeks of today as Turks?

Hercules:

Wow! I find it amazing how some posters can appear for a long time to be reasonable, educated and rational people until suddenly they say something that makes them appear to be a complete asshole jerk.

How many Ukrainians died at the hands of the mainly Jewish Kremlin?

People bitch about atrocities committed by the Russians, labelling the Russian people as a 'failure' (despite Stalin not being Russian). But they conveniently that the people who ordered these atrocities were JEWS. Pretty selective.. doncha think?

Georgians are all muslims.
Georgia follows the tactics and has the culture from Turkey, Russian enemy since Russia has became an actual country in 990 A.D.


Georgians are not muslims. They became christians centuries before russians.
990 A.D.= Russians were stil not christians, they just asimilate theirs viking rulers (which are known as "rhos"). At the same time turcs were some thousands kilometres away, in central Asia.
What kind of history do you learn in Russia ?

Merely because Georgia was part of the Russian Empire/Soviet Union at one stage, does not mean that Georgians are ethnically Russians. Greece was once part of the Ottoman Turkish Empire... would you regard the Greeks of today as Turks?
Who the fuck is talking ethnically? I'm talking nationally. Before 1821, I would consider the ethnic Greeks to be Ottomans, but not Turks, just as, before 1918 , I would consider ethnic Georgians to be Russian Imperial citizens and later Soviets, but not technically Russians.

And whoever said that all Georgians were muslims need to get thier heads screwed on right. The majority of thier population are Eastern Orthodox, thier flag has four fucking crosses on it for fuck's sake. If they were almost entirely muslim, they'd put a fucking crescent on it.

EDIT- and spurious is right, Jews are a nationality or an ethnicity, they're a religion. Saying that there's a "jewish ethnicity" is like saying there's a "catholic ethnicity". It's as illogical as saying 3 + 3 = cornbread.

I agree with this Jew nationality crap.

Yes Russia has alot of Jews, they're still Russians though. If you're going to give the Jews a nationality it would be "Israeli"... but it didn't exist back then, so you're going to have to call them Russian if that's where they were born and that's what their passport said.

Hapsburg:

Saying that there's a "jewish ethnicity"

I never said that there was... never ask a third party about another individual's opinion.

So if we are to adopt the logic of the Russophobes
Is there any reason to do this? :eek: Phobias are well known for inducing irrationality.

I agree with this Jew nationality crap . . . Yes Russia has alot of Jews, they're still Russians though.
The debate as to whether the Jews were a Nationality or not was one that took place in the Soviet Union -- and was resolved in favour of YES.
Stalin's theory on the National Question held that a group could only be a nation if they had a territory, and since there was no Jewish territory, per se, the Jews were not a nation and did not have national rights. Jewish Communists argued that the way to solve this ideological dilemma was by creating a Jewish territory
So that is just what they did! A Jewish Autonomous Oblast was created in the far east. From the legal standpoint at least, the Jews became a Nationality.

For further details see wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Autonomous_Republic)

Georgians are not muslims. They became christians centuries before russians.
990 A.D.= Russians were stil not christians, they just asimilate theirs viking rulers (which are known as "rhos"). At the same time turcs were some thousands kilometres away, in central Asia.
What kind of history do you learn in Russia ?
I know they are christian, you are right, I just hate them so much, they caused so much trouble for Russia, first Stalin then almost all the terrorists now. And even though they claim to be christian they got so many muslim mosques in every town, clearly they are not following their historical (christianity) religion.

Hapsburg:

I would consider ethnic Georgians to be Russian Imperial citizens and later Soviets, but not technically Russians.

I agree. Citizens of the Russian Empire/Soviet Union, yes. Russians, no.

I just hate them so much, they caused so much trouble for Russia, first Stalin then almost all the terrorists now.

I thought that the terorists that fight againsts Russia are chechens, not georgians, at least this is presented in the international media.
Even so, I should'n hate them so much, they want just to be free. The ages of empires are gone, so Russia have to accomodate with the new reality. Any way Russia is a big country, with a great history and culture, and will play an importantant role in the world.
Hateing the neighbours is not a solution, all you could gain is a similar response.

I thought that the terorists that fight againsts Russia are chechens, not georgians, at least this is presented in the international media.
Even so, I should'n hate them so much, they want just to be free. The ages of empires are gone, so Russia have to accomodate with the new reality. Any way Russia is a big country, with a great history and culture, and will play an importantant role in the world.
Hateing the neighbours is not a solution, all you could gain is a similar response.

No man u got it wrong, I hate them for not who they are, I hate them for what they did and are still doing. Look at the map, Chechnya is right above Georgia. Georgians always tried to expand their territorry, so funding rebels in Chechnya is an obvious choice for them. Make Chechen people free? huh?....that would be the beginning of an apocalypse for Russia. Chechnya is the only part of Russia were almost 80% of people have no jobs, and why is that? Because historically they did not have any jobs, their only job was to raid Russians or whomever was near them and then steal from those people, Chechens also historically and now sell drugs. In fact in Moscow almost all of the killings and drug deals are done by immigrants, and not just Azerbaijani people, or people of Kazahstan or any other countries, but Chechens. Whats worse is that every time president Putin and Moscow administration tries to help the situation by funding money to rebuild Chechnya, the generals of Russia steal the money, because they are told so by the rebels who control the drug flow. Checnya is a mud hole, Chechnens control generals and the general population by blowing up pipelines or doing terrorist attacks such as Beslan. Now I am not sure if you know it, but before Beslan there were other terrorist attacks...all by Chechens.... The Nord-Ost theater were the chechens...the series of car bombs planted in Moscow is also Chechens...The metropoliten metro explosion that killed 200 people and more in other attacks...also Chechens....the two planes one heading to the city of Vladimir and other to Saratov...also Chechens. However to make the matters worse, the Europe and USA do not recognize Chechens separatists as terrorists, the recent city of Nalchik siege does not mean anything to them, the media sees the chechens as poor guys who have been oppressed by Russia, meanwhile Chechens cut of heads of russian soldiers, commit crimes against children, blow up streets of moscow, bring in drugs and weaponry. Now you judge what Chechens really are, are they are what they claim to be, or are they terrorists? I go with the second one.

Here see the Chechens...and those children are also Chechens...they even kill their own children...they're like the shiites in Iraq and the shiites tradition of cutting part of the child head so that blood flows out...one of shii'te traditions....Dont believe me? go search it up on google...Amnesty international dont know the real Chechens.

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Sections/Newsweek/Components/Photos/Web_Exclusives/040907_040913/040909_Russia_wide.hlarge.jpg

dragon:

the media sees the chechens as poor guys who have been oppressed by Russia, meanwhile Chechens cut of heads of russian soldiers, commit crimes against children, blow up streets of moscow, bring in drugs and weaponry. Now you judge what Chechens really are, are they are what they claim to be, or are they terrorists? I go with the second one.

It's interesting that you bring that up.

Just compare what happens in Chechyna to what happens in Iraq. It is pretty much the same thing. Occupation by the Allies/Russia. The occupied carry out acts of insurgency, terrorism, and lopping heads off of soldiers.

However, then look at how the Western media spins it. In Iraq, the insurgents are 'evil terrorists' who are fighting 'the good and noble West'. The noble west only wants to bring Iraq peace, prosperity, and democracy. How dare those dirty Arab savages interfere!
Yet in Russia, the Chechyans are heroes. Why? What is the difference between Chechyan rebels, and Iraqi rebels? Both use acts of terrorism. Both are insurgents. Both are under occupation. Russia could claim that it is aiming to spread democracy, peace and prosperity, just like the Allies in Iraq.

Oh wait, the difference is that the Chechyan's are fighting the big bad Russians, so obviously the Chechyans are heroes. Meanwhile, the Iraqi insurgents are scum, because they are fighting the glorious West.

Despite the fall of the Berlin Wall, Russiophobia is still prevalent in the West, and especially in America. Which is odd, since America really has no excuse to hate/fear Russia. America was never invaded by Russia. It was never occupied by Russia. I could understand Russiophobia from a Chechyan, but not from the American media..

President Ulyanov (Lenin) Russian


Actually, Lenin doesn't have a droplet of the Russian or slavic, for that matter, blood. His mother was mostly Jewish with some German or Sweds mix ins. His father was Kakmyk ( nomadic tribe at the time, living around northern Kaspian sea).

spurious:

After all, a majorly Jewish Kremlin gave the thumbs up for numerous atrocities during WWII, including the starvation of 7 million Ukranians.

First, how national composition of the Russian Revolutionary government is related to the WII, which happened 25 years after revolution. By that time, the number of Jews in government was greatly diminished.
Second, famine in Ukraine happened in 1932-33. WWII began 8 years after that (for USSR).
Third, 7 millions is somewhat high number, which doesn't justify anything, but it's unrealistically high.
Fourth, 20 + Jews in government could do nothing without active support of the Russians (or Ukrainians, who did grain confiscation and collectivization, which were responsible for the famine)

Someone should show this to the Jews the next time they bitch about the Holocaust...
they will say that THEIR holocaust was THE holocaust. Nothing else comes near.

Georgia is a totally different country from Russia. Georgians are all muslims
That's quite a news. Georgians were Orthodox Christians for 1500 years or so (much longer than Russians, btw).

Sorry man, the rest of the post is impossible to comment, laughing shakes my fingers. You must be citizen of the Russian Federation grown and educated in States. That explains :) Visit motherland, it waits for you.

I agree with this Jew nationality crap.

Yes Russia has alot of Jews, they're still Russians though. If you're going to give the Jews a nationality it would be "Israeli"... but it didn't exist back then, so you're going to have to call them Russian if that's where they were born and that's what their passport said.

Don't agree so fast. Jews are indeed special in this regard, that's why they've been preserved for so long. Most of them consider themselves as Jews (as nationality, not religion) first and citizen of the country X, second. Jews is a Jew, not Russian, not American, not ... To be considered a Jew (by Jews), religion is IRRELEVANT, all you need is to have enough of jewish ancestors in your mother's line. Most of Jews marry another ethnic Jew, no matter where they live, not matter their religion. Such a behavior is hard to expect if a Jew would be indeed a Russian or American... first.

Actually, Lenin doesn't have a droplet of the Russian or slavic, for that matter, blood. His mother was mostly Jewish with some German or Sweds mix ins. His father was Kakmyk ( nomadic tribe at the time, living around northern Kaspian sea).
Yes, you are right about that, dixonmassey, though I don't know whether it's right to say his mother was "mostly" Jewish. I simply posted the list as given by Wilson.

I think Lenin would have approved of the description "Russian", as he did his best to keep quiet about his origins. In pre-revolutionary days Lenin was known to his comrades as "the Mongol" on account of the oriental features inherited from his father. But no one among the Russian public, I think, was given a hint of Lenin's Kalmuck origins in Soviet times.

However, there are stories that his father was a "Kalmuck Jew"; that his real name was Zederbaum rather than Ulyanov; that he was a circumcised Jew. Who knows! One should employ a large measure of skepticism.

BTW, I believe both Lenin and Stalin were fluent speakers of Yiddish.