http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/cetawayo/539w.jpg

John McCain on his way to Tour Iraq, you can tell by his Exo-Skeleton how safe he really thinks Iraq is.


http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/cetawayo/ObamaHeli.jpg


Obama, cool, calm, collective


http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/cetawayo/McCainIraq2.jpg

Gezus John, only if our Soliders had the same Armored Vehicles you did

well in this aspect JohnMcCain is being much much much muuuuuuuch more intelligent

Lieberman and McCain, overtly displaying the progress being made in Iraq

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/cetawayo/JoeLieberman.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/cetawayo/McCainIRaq.jpg

Obama, "I don't need no stinking flak jacket, I actually trust the soldiers to protect me, unlike Seantor McCain

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/cetawayo/ObamaIraq3.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/cetawayo/ObamaIraq1.jpg

seriously McCain is being smart about it, Iraq is a dangerous place...Obama is being a fool...

Obviously, the picture of Obama is not on the ground as no one is wearing body armor.

Edit:Or it's in a safe zone

One could also reason that it's a testament to the improving conditions there and that Obama should thank McCain.

Obviously, the picture of Obama is not on the ground as no one is wearing body armor.

errr...press "F5" and see again...

seriously McCain is being smart about it, Iraq is a dangerous place...Obama is being a fool...

Yea, the same fool that wanted our troops pulled out last year. Iraq would look like Cambodia in the late 1970s if Obama had had his way.

seriously McCain is being smart about it, Iraq is a dangerous place...Obama is being a fool...

McCain recently claimed that there “are neighborhoods in Baghdad where you and I could walk through those neighborhoods, today.” In a press conference after his Baghdad tour, McCain told a reporter that his visit to the market today was proof that you could indeed “walk freely” in some areas of Baghdad.

Oh the Irony

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/cetawayo/McCainMarket.jpg

well were is the irony? its obviously not a regular Iraq's marketplace...

Yea, the same fool that wanted our troops pulled out last year. Iraq would look like Cambodia in the late 1970s if Obama had had his way.

Nope, the mission was accomplished back in 2005. George Bush confirms this fact.


Admiral Kelly, Captain Card, officers and sailors of the USS Abraham Lincoln, my fellow Americans: Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/05/20030501-15.html


http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/cetawayo/mission-accomplished.jpg

Nope, the mission was accomplished back in 2005. George Bush confirms this fact.

Then a few months later, terrorists and insurgents started their own war in Iraq; one backed by radical leftists around the world. Oh, those "evil" Americans bringing democracy and freedom to Iraq, how dare they !

Mission Accomplished.

draqon says.

thats it folks...

Now exactly when were those picture taken? What years? and in what locations?

Depending on the Location the body armor would have been appropriate.

ps: Obamma didn't get out of the Green Zone, deep inside the Green Zone.


This week Obama spoke at a building named after Ronald Reagan, and tried to set up a speech at Germany's Brandenburg Gate, the site of Reagan's famous "tear down this wall" address. Obama is trying to "look big, look important, the way Reagan looked big,

Barack Obama failed to support the ‘Surge’ strategy that drastically reduced violence in Iraq, he’s failed to meet with General Petraeus, and failed to see the conditions first-hand in Iraq for 875 days. With a miserable absence of dealing with the on-going issues in Iraq, Barack Obama’s visit amounts to little more than damage control.”

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/cetawayo/McCainIraq2.jpg
Gezus John, only if our Soliders had the same Armored Vehicles you did

They do, I was justing watching a show about those vehicles on the Military Channel, they are called Strykers. They have many of them in Iraq. :)

errr...one shot at the tire...and what happens to the Stryker?

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/cetawayo/539w.jpg

John McCain on his way to Tour Iraq, you can tell by his Exo-Skeleton how safe he really thinks Iraq is.

Which time? and Obama wasn't there before the Surge when there was a excellent chance to get your ass shot off doing a visit, he only showed up after thing quiet down, and still never gets out of the Green Zone, and start pontificating about how it should be have been done.


http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/cetawayo/ObamaHeli.jpg


Obama, cool, calm, collective

Yes, in a VIP bird, you know the special one's with air conditioning.

Notice the closed doors and the nice head rest on the back of the seats?

That is not the interior of a combat helicopter.


http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/cetawayo/McCainIraq2.jpg

Gezus John, only if our Soliders had the same Armored Vehicles you did

Guess what Ganymede, they do, It's called a Stryker Combat Vehicle, and McCain was out side the green zone, notice the dirt road, and he was with real troops, were you could here the bullets.

So your photos show that the surge Obama didn't want has made it a safer place. Ok. Thanks.

errr...one shot at the tire...and what happens to the Stryker?

They have eight wheels, draqon.

Guess what Ganymede, they do, It's called a Stryker Combat Vehicle, and McCain was out side the green zone, notice the dirt road, and he was with real troops, were you could here the bullets.

John McCain has never traveled outside of the Greenzone. I Challenge you to prove that he did.

Green zone sounds like something out of Command & Conquer.

1) You didn't mention when the pictures were taken. McCain has been to Iraq 8 times in the past few years, including when things weren't going so good. If he had touched down in Iraq today he would not have been wearing a vest either, I'm sure, because he has refused to accept the protection of the Secret Service up until about a month ago when it was pretty much imposed on him, showing him as a pretty brave guy (according to your way of measuring ballsyness, anyway). In fact, him showing up at Baghdad at all during the hard times is a sign that just one of his balls is bigger than Obama's both balls + dick. What's a vest gonna do against an RPG?

2) Obama being with out a vest is proof that the Surge which he opposed to and claimed would make Iraq much less safe, has worked, and so he has no need to wear any vest.

They have eight wheels, draqon.
Also, each tire can take a 14.5mm round without failing catastrophically.

Another fun fact: that weird birdcage around the hull is there to detonate RPGs away from the hull, so that the plasma jet their shaped charge produces can cool down and disperse before striking the hull directly. It works awesome despite being ridiculously cheap.

Green zone sounds like something out of Command & Conquer.
The Strykers also come with a Tiberium harvesting attachment.

What shade of lipstick is Johnno wearing, btw? Or is it just the standard gloss?
He looks so cuddly, like a big teddy-bear.

But do not press the growl button.

John McCain has never traveled outside of the Greenzone. I Challenge you to prove that he did.

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6721/51275308wj6.jpg

U. S. Senator John McCain (R), Arizona, shakes hands with key leaders of the Iraqi police force in Kirkuk, Iraq at the Kirkuk Police Academy

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/Iraq_map.png

Eat crow Ganymede, that sure looks well out side the green zone.

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/9840/75446157nb4.jpg

Seems that Sen. Mc Cain isn't over dressed for the occasion.

Here is a intresting point about McCains visit to the Market, that the News Media didn't tell anyone about:

The fact that McCain was able and willing to walk around the Shorja market indicates that things are getting better, even if Iraq remains a war zone. Of course McCain had heavy security; he’s an especially attractive target for insurgents. But the market was functioning normally while he was there, and he wasn’t surrounded by bodyguards. He walked around freely without a helmet (though he was wearing body armor), and mingled with Iraqis. So did the other members of his delegation, as well as General David Petraeus, the senior U.S. commander in Iraq.

Reporters may think this was like a Sunday stroll in Central Park, but that wasn’t the view of the U.S. embassy’s security coordinator, who refused to sign off on McCain’s visit because he thought it was too risky. The Senator thought otherwise, and he made an important point with his visit. Actually, two points: first, that the situation in Baghdad is improving; second, that the news media are more intent on ridiculing rather than reporting the first bits of good news to come out of Iraq in quite a long time.

Gezus John, only if our Soliders had the same Armored Vehicles you did
This is crap. I prefer Obama to McCain, but this is cheezy papparazie logic. Show a photo of Brad Pitt grimacing and then tell a story about Angelina Jolie having had slept with the maid. I hate this type of political propaganda even if it is supposed to back up my choices.

One could also reason that it's a testament to the improving conditions there and that Obama should thank McCain.

Yea, the same fool that wanted our troops pulled out last year. Iraq would look like Cambodia in the late 1970s if Obama had had his way.

So your photos show that the surge Obama didn't want has made it a safer place. Ok. Thanks.

1) You didn't mention when the pictures were taken. McCain has been to Iraq 8 times in the past few years, including when things weren't going so good. If he had touched down in Iraq today he would not have been wearing a vest either, I'm sure, because he has refused to accept the protection of the Secret Service up until about a month ago when it was pretty much imposed on him, showing him as a pretty brave guy (according to your way of measuring ballsyness, anyway). In fact, him showing up at Baghdad at all during the hard times is a sign that just one of his balls is bigger than Obama's both balls + dick. What's a vest gonna do against an RPG?

2) Obama being with out a vest is proof that the Surge which he opposed to and claimed would make Iraq much less safe, has worked, and so he has no need to wear any vest.

This is crap. I prefer Obama to McCain, but this is cheezy papparazie logic. Show a photo of Brad Pitt grimacing and then tell a story about Angelina Jolie have slept with the maid. I hate this type of political propaganda even if it is supposed to back up my choices.

I'd only be repeating the relevant points already made. What a BS thread.

I don't understand. This thread has pictures of both candidates in Iraq without body armor. What's the problem?

I'd only be repeating the relevant points already made. What a BS thread.

It is a BS thread, but there is a relevant chronology that Gany is intentionally overlooking.

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6721/51275308wj6.jpg

U. S. Senator John McCain (R), Arizona, shakes hands with key leaders of the Iraqi police force in Kirkuk, Iraq at the Kirkuk Police Academy

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/Iraq_map.png

Eat crow Ganymede, that sure looks well out side the green zone.

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/9840/75446157nb4.jpg

Seems that Sen. Mc Cain isn't over dressed for the occasion.

I stand corrected on him not leaving the Greenzone. But that wasn't the point of my post. However, it only further proves my point. When Obama went to Basra (way out of the greenzone) he still didn't put on a full suit of body armor, like our brave War Hero McCain.

Obama outside of the greenzone

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a01_1216733444

I stand corrected on him not leaving the Greenzone. But that wasn't the point of my post. However, it only further proves my point. When Obama went to Basra (way out of the greenzone) he still didn't put on a full suit of body armor, like our brave War Hero McCain.
You just adding to the noise of political bullshit. We have no idea who acted wisely or incautiously or too carefully or why they did that. What they were told and by whom. Printing photos like this and interpreting them in the shallow way you are doing just asks for people on the other side to take photos that 'prove' this or that about Obama or whatever politician you might happen to like. If the photos were reversed I would not think this proved anything about Obama, whom I vastly prefer as a candidate. You are arguing crap and will find the other side only too happy to argue crap back.

Ganymede

I stand corrected on him not leaving the Greenzone. But that wasn't the point of my post. However, it only further proves my point. When Obama went to Basra (way out of the greenzone) he still didn't put on a full suit of body armor, like our brave War Hero McCain.

Obama outside of the greenzone

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a01_1216733444

A yes, Obama at the Multi National Base in Basra, right in the middle of how many 10s of thousands of Troops, and how far from the Base perimeter?

A year after the Troop Surge, and things in Iraq have become measurerably safer, a surge he voted against and still hasn't recognized as success full.

800 and some day after McCain visited the troops, and McCain has been there 3 times, and the only reason that Obama is their now is because of McCain's chiding.

Yes a day late and a dollar short.

I loved the look on the troops faces, I could tell they were really impressed by the Obamanator, :roflmao:I'mmm Baarraacck!!!!

I loved the look on the troops faces, I could tell they were really impressed by the Obamanator, :roflmao:I'mmm Baarraacck!!!!
And here it comes back. Using photos in the way Ganymede has just begs for opponents to interpret faces and gestures as evidence of
whatthefuckever.
Ganymede will meet his kind of BS - and this above was a small portion of it.

You just adding to the noise of political bullshit.

I respectfully disagree, especially when you're making inflammatory statements like the one above.


We have no idea who acted wisely or incautiously or too carefully or why they did that.

Who's we? The best I can do is observe the material evidence. And the material evidence illustrates that McCain carries no less then 100 soldiers, 3 Blackhawks, and a full suit of body armor whenever he tours one of the safe markets in Iraq.




What they were told and by whom. Printing photos like this and interpreting them in the shallow way you are doing just asks for people on the other side to take photos that 'prove' this or that about Obama or whatever politician you might happen to like.

That's the nature of Politics. The right is on a full fledged campaign to dishonor, discredit, and besmirch Obama and brand him as a traitor. Just take a look at the posts made by conservatives on this forum. However, I don't see you obsessing over their opinions.


If the photos were reversed I would not think this proved anything about Obama, whom I vastly prefer as a candidate. You are arguing crap and will find the other side only too happy to argue crap back.

If your auntie had balls then she would of been your uncle.

I respectfully disagree, especially when you're making inflammatory statements like the one above. My statements have no effect on the status of your 'arguments' in this thread. It is the same sort of BS that was used against Obama when he seemed not to be patriotic during national anthems.

Who's we? The best I can do is observe the material evidence. And the material evidence illustrates that McCain carries no less then 100 soldiers, 3 Blackhawks, and a full suit of body armor whenever he tours one of the safe markets in Iraq. When, on whose advice, etc. Was this advice good? Did he respect military advice more than Obama? Was Obama foolish? What were danger levels on those days? and so on. Using photos like this is facile and manipulative.

That's the nature of Politics. The right is on a full fledged campaign to dishonor, discredit, and besmirch Obama and brand him as a traitor. Just take a look at the posts made by conservatives on this forum. However, I don't see you obsessing over their opinions.
I've posted against conservatives regularly in this and other forums. My behavior, even if it were somehow inconsistant, does not make your choices here better. This was basically a 'you didn't do what you should have so I can do what I want' argument.

If your auntie had balls then she would of been your uncle.With democrats like you who needs republicans.


If a collegue of mine was up for a promotion in my company but was up against another candidate and the other guys camp was emailing around a photo 'showing' my collegue was a 'faggot' or whatever, I would not use this behavior on their part to send a photo around of their buddy to show he is a ________. There are enough people out there spreading shallow arguments. I certainly can't stop you from joining them. May you enjoy the world you create.

And here it comes back. Using photos in the way Ganymede has just begs for opponents to interpret faces and gestures as evidence of
whatthefuckever.
Ganymede will meet his kind of BS - and this above was a small portion of it.

I have been party to, too many of those kind of photo ops for Democrats, and have been privy to the comments and ribald comment after the Democrat VIP has left for safer climes, and I have seen those faces and have even made some of those faces, as some REMF politician, from Washington came to look good for the News.

I have been party to, too many of those kind of photo ops for Democrats, and have been privy to the comments and ribald comment after the Democrat VIP has left for safer climes, and I have seen those faces and have even made some of those faces, as some REMF politician, from Washington came to look good for the News.
And then I will get a post from some person on the other side with their perception of an event that somehow backs up their interpretation of the faces of people in a photo. Most military people I know are extremely skeptical of the motives of being-photographed politicians in their presence both Rep and Dem. You get high in the brass and there tends to be more support for the Republicans, but the grunts don't trust any of the lot of them.

Maybe I will paste in some photos and 'prove' my opinions. I'll use the photos to prove my opinions and my opinions to prove the photos are what I say they are.

In the interests of not dumbing down politics I objected to Ganymede's use of photos against a candidate I hope does not succeed.

And then I will get a post from some person on the other side with their perception of an event that somehow backs up their interpretation of the faces of people in a photo. Most military people I know are extremely skeptical of the motives of being-photographed politicians in their presence both Rep and Dem. You get high in the brass and there tends to be more support for the Republicans, but the grunts don't trust any of the lot of them.

Maybe I will paste in some photos and 'prove' my opinions. I'll use the photos to prove my opinions and my opinions to prove the photos are what I say they are.

In the interests of not dumbing down politics I objected to Ganymede's use of photos against a candidate I hope does not succeed.

Now if you have been in formations like the show for Obama, express your opinion, I have been in those dog and pony shows, so I have a reasonably informed opinion of what was being shown from those picture, and what was in the minds of the troops standing the DAPS, and I will tell the Woman in the picture was impressed to all get out by Obama, the guys were another story, been there, and heard it from the source.

But I can tell you from personnel interaction as a Troop, that the Democrats are far and away less trusted than the Republicans, the standard military man tends to be very conservative, it come with the territory, its our ass on the line, and we have a great fondness for our own ass's, we hate losing chunks of them.

We, and I, have lived under Democratic Administrations, and under Republican
administrations, and I will tell you that when the Democrats held the purse strings, the military was always hind tit, from weapons to medical care, the first place money was taken, was from was thing that affected our welfare, be it weapons or families, the needs of the military always suffered under the Liberals and Democrats.

great post E3R, serious infomation then this:



The Strykers also come with a Tiberium harvesting attachment.
:D:D:D

It is the same sort of BS that was used against Obama when he seemed not to be patriotic during national anthems.

That's your opinion, and I don't agree. The intention of the thread was to highlight the Hypocrisy of McCain. If you can't tolerate that, then I recommend that you go and troll some other thread.


When, on whose advice, etc. Was this advice good? Did he respect military advice more than Obama? Was Obama foolish? What were danger levels on those days? and so on. Using photos like this is facile and manipulative.

The best thing one can do is examine the material evidence then draw a conclusion. I understand you're unable to, but I'm not.


I've posted against conservatives regularly in this and other forums.

Good, go and make yourself useful.



My behavior, even if it were somehow inconsistant, does not make your choices here better.

The thread wasn't about me, or my choices. The thread was about McCain, and his choice to mislead the American people on the security situation in Iraq.


This was basically a 'you didn't do what you should have so I can do what I want' argument.

No it's not.

With democrats like you who needs republicans.

You're the one parroting the McCain camps talking points, not me.


If a collegue of mine was up for a promotion in my company but was up against another candidate and the other guys camp was emailing around a photo 'showing' my collegue was a 'faggot' or whatever, I would not use this behavior on their part to send a photo around of their buddy to show he is a ________. There are enough people out there spreading shallow arguments. I certainly can't stop you from joining them. May you enjoy the world you create.

I don't know what Country you live in, but due to the infinite smears orchestrated by the Clinton and McCain campaign, 12% of the country now thinks he's a Muslim. I don't think this is a shallow argument at all. And I'm certainly not the only Democrat who's raising this question.

this thread just proves what Winston once said. you have to be retarded to vote for someone because of how he looks in pictures.

this thread just proves what Winston once said. you have to be retarded to vote for someone because of how he looks in pictures.

Sadly it happens fairly often in the states. what was dukakis was is it not.

this thread just proves what Winston once said. you have to be retarded to vote for someone because of how he looks in pictures.

And if you're retarded enough to insinuate that one's vote will based on Pictures then I really don't know what to say.

And if you're retarded enough to insinuate that one's vote will based on Pictures then I really don't know what to say.
Many 'one's' votes are based on photos and the interpretations of those photos.
I think a general lack of respect for arguments based on photos like the ones in this thread and the ones that 'proved' Obama was not patriotic is a good step for anyone to take who does not think elections should be decided by such things.

That's your opinion, and I don't agree. The intention of the thread was to highlight the Hypocrisy of McCain. If you can't tolerate that, then I recommend that you go and troll some other thread. The only valid reason to use photos like this is in direct response to similar BS by the other side. They show a photo 'proving' that Obama is not patriotic - I am sure you remember that BS - and then you respond with 'if that is a logical conclusion than we can draw similar logical conclusions from this photo' and you show McCain like you have. The moral difference is you are not legitimizing this kind of BS, but pointing out the problems with it and showing that their candidate is vulnerable to the same kinds of propaganda, a kind of propaganda both sides should drop.

I am making a reasoned argument against your use of photos. If you can't tolerate that you can avoid your own thread. Calling it trolling is as empty as your photo interpretations.

The best thing one can do is examine the material evidence then draw a conclusion. I understand you're unable to, but I'm not. It seems like others have pointed out errors in your facts. They have also countered with their interpretations of the photos. Nobody has mentioned a damn thing showing an intelligent voter why what they are seeing in the photos means they should choose one candidate over the other. It is just a bunch of noice and, essentially, name calling.

Good, go and make yourself useful. I am doing that right here, also. Sounds like you have the exact same mind set as those people who say love your country or leave it. Do not criticize those people on your team. Better to pretend that what they do is always right. The problem is the effects of what you are doing affect us even though you think you are helping the right team.

You're the one parroting the McCain camps talking points, not me. You are acting like them. You can be the Rush Limbaugh of the liberals.

I don't know what Country you live in, but due to the infinite smears orchestrated by the Clinton and McCain campaign, 12% of the country now thinks he's a Muslim. I don't think this is a shallow argument at all. And I'm certainly not the only Democrat who's raising this question. What this means is, they did so I will do it too. I see nothing in this thread that addresses the Obama being Muslim issue. They were nasty so I get to attack McCain using similar propaganda.

The only valid reason to use photos like this is in direct response to similar BS by the other side. They show a photo 'proving' that Obama is not patriotic - I am sure you remember that BS - and then you respond with 'if that is a logical conclusion than we can draw similar logical conclusions from this photo' and you show McCain like you have. The moral difference is you are not legitimizing this kind of BS, but pointing out the problems with it and showing that their candidate is vulnerable to the same kinds of propaganda, a kind of propaganda both sides should drop.

That's why we've only had 2 Democratic Presidents in the last 50 years. Because our ranks are infested with pussies who refuse to take the fight to the Republicans. Fact McCain said Iraq was safe. Fact McCain has an Army of Soldiers with him whenever he tours the safe Country of Iraq. Fact You don't have to a small Army surrounding you when you're visiting a safe country. No matter how you try to spin it, you can't dispute those facts.

I am making a reasoned argument against your use of photos. If you can't tolerate that you can avoid your own thread. Calling it trolling is as empty as your photo interpretations.

No you're not, you're whining about me pointing out the Hypocrisy of John McCain.

It seems like others have pointed out errors in your facts.

Partisan right wing hacks, that's to be expected.


Nobody has mentioned a damn thing showing an intelligent voter why what they are seeing in the photos means they should choose one candidate over the other. It is just a bunch of noice and, essentially, name calling.

That's not the premise of the thread. I don't give a shit about how anyone on this forum votes in the next election.



I am doing that right here, also. Sounds like you have the exact same mind set as those people who say love your country or leave it. Do not criticize those people on your team. Better to pretend that what they do is always right. The problem is the effects of what you are doing affect us even though you think you are helping the right team.
You are acting like them. You can be the Rush Limbaugh of the liberals.

Gladly, I'm sick of Democrats being submissive pussies who vote for things like the Patriot Act, the Iraq war, and FISA, out of fear of being labeled weak on terrorism. It's Democrats like you that has allowed the constitution hating Republicans to strip us of our freedoms.

What this means is, they did so I will do it too. I see nothing in this thread that addresses the Obama being Muslim issue. They were nasty so I get to attack McCain using similar propaganda.

This thread isn't about Obama being a Muslim for crying out loud. It's about McCain's actions not mirroring his rhetoric.

And if you're retarded enough to insinuate that one's vote will based on Pictures then I really don't know what to say.

you opened this thread and judged both candidates based on what they lok like. sorry, this is retarded.

That's why we've only had 2 Democratic Presidents in the last 50 years. Because our ranks are infested with pussies who refuse to take the fight to the Republicans. Fact McCain said Iraq was safe. Fact McCain has an Army of Soldiers with him whenever he tours the safe Country of Iraq. Fact You don't have to a small Army surrounding you when you're visiting a safe country. No matter how you try to spin it, you can't dispute those facts.

Fact : U.S. presidents and high ranking officials commonly have bodyguards of some type with them EVERYWHERE they go around the world.......

That's why we've only had 2 Democratic Presidents in the last 50 years....

I thought there's been four Democrats who've been president in the last 50 years... :bugeye: :shrug:


Hmmm...Kennedy, Johnson, Carter and Clinton....yep that's four...:rolleyes:

Fact : U.S. presidents and high ranking officials commonly have bodyguards of some type with them EVERYWHERE they go around the world.......

I'm well aware that the secret service:rolleyes:


This is about McCain's hypocrisy. You don't need 3 gunships, and 100 soldiers to accompany you when you're touring a a safe Iraqi neighborhood

That's why we've only had 2 Democratic Presidents in the last 50 years. Because our ranks are infested with pussies who refuse to take the fight to the Republicans. 1) you are not very good at counting. Try again. How many Democratic Presidents have we had in the last 50 years? Jesus Christ. 2) I don't have to chosoe between taking the fight to the Republicans and pointing out the crap you are spreading. Did you notice how madanthonywayne reinterpreted one of your photos? Do you really this this BS will get anywhere when it is so easy to counterspin and hallucinate on photos? And since you have accused me of trolling I also countered his counterspin.

No you're not, you're whining about me pointing out the Hypocrisy of John McCain. Does this mean if a Democrat goes to Iraq and does not wear safety outfits he is a hypocrite? This is a dead end.

Partisan right wing hacks, that's to be expected. You admitted they were right in at least one instance.

That's not the premise of the thread. I don't give a shit about how anyone on this forum votes in the next election. OK. I can see if you have no practical goals how the problems I am pointing out about your tack are moot.

Gladly, I'm sick of Democrats being submissive pussies who vote for things like the Patriot Act, the Iraq war, and FISA, out of fear of being labeled weak on terrorism. It's Democrats like you that has allowed the constitution hating Republicans to strip us of our freedoms. I'm not a Democrat. Now you are making assumptions that if I disagree with your crap I must be this or that kind of person. I prefer Obama to Mccain, sort of like I prefer getting a few fillings done to having a root canal. Hell, I liked Clinton (the male one) more than I like Obama and he lived up to my expectations: he carried the Republican agenda forward at breakneck speed. I see that you are pissed off at your party. And you think that the Republicans don't play fair. So you adopt something similar to their approach, instead of pointing out how we are manipulated by images and poor logic, you make use of it yourself. Mccain is wearing body armour and Obama isn't so McCain is a hypocrite and a scaredy cat and Obama is not. Please. In a dumbed down war you will lose to the people who can move images around faster than you. Guess who that will be. Better to undercut that whole mode of convincing people. I know. It is satisfying short term to give it back. But long term it does nothing but validate a shallow approach to politics. And guess what that will produce more of kin of Democrats, your brothers and sisters, that you obviously loathe.

This thread isn't about Obama being a Muslim for crying out loud. Precisely my point. You brought up the Muslim issue as an excuse for your actions. If your propaganda approach was valid you would not need to point out what 'they are doing'. 'But they are naughty' has been your reaction all along in our dispute.

I'm well aware that the secret service:rolleyes:


This is about McCain's hypocrisy. You don't need 3 gunships, and 100 soldiers to accompany you when you're touring a a safe Iraqi neighborhood

It's also called "kissing ass" in the military, when the troops cuddle up to high ranking officials and politicians......

I don't have to chosoe between taking the fight to the Republicans and pointing out the crap you are spreading.

Nope, I'm just reporting the facts. I know that infuriates an X Clinton supporter such as yourself, who's still brokenhearted over your candidates demise.




Did you notice how madanthonywayne reinterpreted one of your photos?

Madanthonywayne lol, it's no fun debating him. He runs from every debate that challenges him. So please reference someone more suitable to oppose me.



Do you really this this BS will get anywhere when it is so easy to counterspin and hallucinate on photos?

Yes, it's gratifying to post a photo that illustrates hypocrisy. I don't care what the counterspin is going to be. The right spins everything, because they can't win on the issues.


and since you have accused me of trolling I also countered his counterspin.
Does this mean if a Democrat goes to Iraq and does not wear safety outfits he is a hypocrite? This is a dead end.

Nope, I'm only demanding that our elected officials practice what they preach. Eventhough people like you will never hold them accountable.



I'm not a Democrat.

I know you're not, any real Democrat can see through McCain's hypocrisy.



Now you are making assumptions that if I disagree with your crap I must be this or that kind of person. I prefer Obama to Mccain, sort of like I prefer getting a few fillings done to having a root canal.

:argue:


Hell, I liked Clinton (the male one) more than I like Obama

That isn't surprising, your rhetoric clearly indicates it.

and he lived up to my expectations: he carried the Republican agenda forward at breakneck speed.

You're absolutely correct. That's why Hillary ran to the left of her own husbands policies.




I see that you are pissed off at your party. And you think that the Republicans don't play fair.

I never said the Republicans didn't play fair. I said that the Republicans can't win on the issues. So they prey on the emotions and prejudices of the American people to achieve their objectives.



So you adopt something similar to their approach, instead of pointing out how we are manipulated by images and poor logic, you make use of it yourself.

Iraq is not safe, if it was, he wouldn't need 3 gun ships and 100 soldiers to accompany him on a stroll through one of these so called safe neighborhoods.


Mccain is wearing body armour and Obama isn't so McCain is a hypocrite and a scaredy cat and Obama is not.

Exactly.



In a dumbed down war you will lose to the people who can move images around faster than you. Guess who that will be. Better to undercut that whole mode of convincing people. I know. It is satisfying short term to give it back. But long term it does nothing but validate a shallow approach to politics. And guess what that will produce more of kin of Democrats, your brothers and sisters, that you obviously loathe.

Sorry, but the Democratic party doesn't need outsiders like you to lecture us on how we conduct our political affairs.

Precisely my point. You brought up the Muslim issue as an excuse for your actions. If your propaganda approach was valid you would not need to point out what 'they are doing'. 'But they are naughty' has been your reaction all along in our dispute.

It's not propaganda, Iraq is not safe, a suicide bomber just killed 7 innocent civilians today at a Baghdad checkpoint. I'm not saying McCain shouldn't of worn the Armor, nor am I admonishing him for needing the assistance of 3 Apaches, 2 Gunships, and 100 soldiers to prove to the American people that Iraq is now safe. Which is bullshit because that very market is now controlled by Al Sadr's Mahdi Army:wtf:

Nope, I'm just reporting the facts. I know that infuriates an X Clinton supporter such as yourself, who's still brokenhearted over your candidates demise. You clearly did not read my post. Clinton did exactly what I predicted: followed the Republican game plan. You still seem to think you know my politics.

Madanthonywayne lol, it's no fun debating him. He runs from every debate that challenges him. So please reference someone more suitable to oppose me. This seems a response to a point I did not make.

Nope, I'm only demanding that our elected officials practice what they preach. Eventhough people like you will never hold them accountable. Gee, wrong again. I would assume you realize there are other ways of holding someone accountable than the tack you've taken in this thread. Again, assumptions. I don't like your approach, so I must be doing nothing. I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that you are aware of a variety of ways of arguing against political positions.

I know you're not, any real Democrat can see through McCain's hypocrisy. Any real Democrat should have left that party a long time ago. The party has had little appeal to me. Thought it sometimes makes lesser evil noises.

You're absolutely correct. That's why Hillary ran to the left of her own husbands policies. Keyword: ran. If you are implying that she would have ended up more to the left than her husband, something that should be easy to accomplish, you are confusing what people say to get elected with what they will do. Bill ran to the left of his own policies. Twice.

I never said the Republicans didn't play fair. I said that the Republicans can't win on the issues. So they prey on the emotions and prejudices of the American people to achieve their objectives. And you have joined them rather than challenging form you change content.

Sorry, but the Democratic party doesn't need outsiders like you to lecture us on how we conduct our political affairs. Really. See your own diatribes above at the group you thought I was a member of: your own party. You clearly disrespect the majority of your party because they damn well perpetrated your list of sins. And while I assume many of them do know how many Democratic presidents there have been in the last 50 years, I don't think most of them realize how complicit they are in what the Republicans have done. Clearly the Democratic party does need outsiders to influence it and someone like you who is pissed off at the majority of Democrats should realize that.

You've called me a pussy - when you thought I was like most of the people in your party. Seems to me you do not have the courage to distance yourself from a party you clearly despise.