A numbers puzzle

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by woowoo, Nov 9, 2010.

  1. woowoo Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    232
    .
    This is something i've wondered about for a long time but never
    had the chance to ask an expert, or perhaps someone would direct a newbie
    otherwise. It all seems self evident but i feel there is also something
    deeper at work here:

    Take any number and add all the digits together, if the sum is more than one
    digit then again add all the digits together, repeat until the sum is one digit.
    Repeat for a second number, then in the same way add together the sum of
    the digits for both numbers:



    example:

    ; 3968, 3+9+6+8 = 26, 2+6 = 8

    ; 473, 4+7+3 = 14, 1+4 = 5

    ; 8+5 = 13, 1+3 = 4

    add together the two original numbers and to the result sum the digits as above:

    ; 3968+473 = 4441, 4+4+4+1 = 13, 1+3 = 4


    The answer is 4 for both sumations.

    This seems to will work for any number and any sum of numbers, although i dont how
    how to proove the summations will always be the same whatever way they are applied.

    Therefore if any number can be reduced to a single digit in this way, all numbers must
    belong to one of a number of sets that corresponds to the available digits,
    in this case in the range of 1-9.

    My question is do these sets of numbers share any other interesting
    properties other than the fact they correspond to the summation of their digits,
    and how does the set of all possible numbers distribute itself amongst the sets
    of reduced numbers, finally would this work for counting systems that use an
    base such as binary and hex or whatever. OM


    Thank you so much.
     
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  3. alephnull you can count on me Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    147

    Here's some food for thought.

    Let's call this "digit sum" thing that you have D.
    i.e D(3968) = 8 , D(13)=4 etc.
    Then what you are trying to prove is whether D(x+y) = D ( D(x) + D(y) )


    First define the "modulo function" .

    via wikipedia

    So 5 modulo 4 = 1. as 1 is the remainder left after trying to divide 5 by 4.
    22 modulo 9 = 4, as 4 is the remainder left when trying to divide 22 by 9. etc.


    Can you see why
    D(n) = n modulo 9 when n is not a multiple of 9, and
    D(n) = 9 if n IS a multiple of 9?

    After you've sussed this, you should be able to prove D(x+y) = D( D(x) + D(y) )
     
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  5. rpenner Fully Wired Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,833
    A given written-out positive number, A, is a representation in a certain base, conventionally \(b= 10\) :

    \( A = a_n a_{n-1} a_{n-2} ... a_2 a_1 a_0 (\textrm{base} \, b) = \sum_{k=0}^{n} a_k b^k \)

    If we divide (with remainder) A by b, we get two numbers which can be combined to form A.

    \( A = a_0 + b \left\lfloor \frac{A}{b} \right\rfloor = a_0 + b \frac{A - a_0 }{b} = a_0 + b \sum_{k=0}^{n-1} a_{k+1} b^k \)
    But since \(b = 1 + ( b - 1 ) \), we have
    \( A = a_0 + \sum_{k=0}^{n-1} a_{k+1} b^k + (b - 1) \sum_{k=0}^{n-1} a_{k+1} b^k \)
    Thus, modulo (b-1)
    \( A \equiv a_0 + \sum_{k=0}^{n-1} a_{k+1} b^k \equiv a_0 + a_1 + \sum_{k=0}^{n-2} a_{k+2} b^k \equiv a_0 + a_1 + a_2 + \sum_{k=0}^{n-3} a_{k+3} b^k \equiv ... \equiv \sum_{k=0}^n a_{k+1} ( \textrm{mod} ( b - 1 ) ) \)
    Or for conventional base 10 numbers, the number A is equal to the sum of its digits modulo 9.

    If you repeat this summing of digits until you have just a single digit, that is the number's digital root.

    And because addition and multiplication are faithful under modulo 9, so are digital roots.

    \( 123 + 456 = 579 \equiv 3 \)
    \( 9123 + 456 = 9579 \equiv 3 \)
    \( 123 \times 456 = 56088 \equiv 9 \)
    but subtraction is tricker since \(0 \equiv 9\), \(-1 \equiv 8\), \(-2 \equiv 7\), ...
    \( 123 - 456 = -333 \equiv -9 \equiv 9\)
    \( 9123 - 456 = 8667 \equiv 9\)
    \( 9123 - 123 = 9000 \equiv 9\)
    \( 456 - 123 = 333 \equiv 9\)

    Division is even tricker, since
    \( 2035 / 5 = 407 \equiv 2\) even if \(5 \times 407 = 2035\) makes sense.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casting_out_nines
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular_arithmetic
     
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  7. woowoo Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    232
    .
    thanx rpenner, aleph, that's more than interesting, i had never heard
    of casting out nines so that helps. the wiki page redirects to Buckminster
    Fuller's book 'Synergetics', curious to find casting out nines in the
    numerology section of that book, another example of the synthesis of knowledge
    and intuition that the truely great mathematicians possess. see also
    Beoit Mandlebrot who died recently as a further exemplar of these
    qualities. OM
     

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