A man sits in a dark room, playing pong. He controls the paddle. He doesn't live in the world of the paddle, but in his own exponentially positioned plane of existence. He enjoys the game and plays for a while, before leaving and finding a new one.

The paddle, on the other hand, resides within its own plane of existence. It cannot see the man who controls it, merely battling with the other ai-controlled paddle.

...

The man cannot see his soul. Is it there?

A soul connects to a conscience. It plays the conscience, and the man blindly follows it. Upon enjoying the man's pathetic life, he watches the man die and finds something more intricate to do.

Throughout the man's life, he cannot experience his soul in its entirety, but can get a vague idea of it, as it is connected with his brain. He cannot directly experience others, as post modernism disallows this; as well as the general barrier of communication and separate interpretation to reality. Perhaps his soul has contact with the souls of others, all playing similar, connected consciences (games)?

Thoughts, please.

You're a nut case. First, such a situation could never happen. Second, what makes you think there is such an entity called a soul? Third, what is a soul if it exists? Fourth, why would you think that the soul seperates from the conscious body? Fifth, why do you think a soul has to be connected with a brain? Sixth, why would "post modernism disallow this"? Seventh, this entire scenario belongs in a psychiatric ward. Did you ever think of getting help? This posting is so far off base with reality that it's totally pathetic. Space to base? Please come back down to the real world. bye!

Valich:

It strikes me as rather curious that someone who so detests philosophy would spend his time responding to every new thread. Are not irrational, masochistic desires, the true symptom of insanity?

Rantaak:

Elaborate on some of this, if you please. For instance, yes, what is this soul of that which you speak? And why does "post-modernism dissallow this"?

"He cannot directly experience others, as post modernism disallows this". What I mean by that is that he cannot truly know what others thoughts are, simply from the senses connected directly to his brain (sight, touch, smell, hearing, taste). He can only assume that he understands what they're saying or attempting to communicate.

As I explained, I believe the soul is something of a higher plane of existence that can connect to a brain. This is the reason:

Either
A) I have experienced a direct linking to the consciences of others via soul to soul, which has lead me to be able to influence their minds by the sheer power of will, resulting in bizarre actions, hallucination, and remote viewing.

or B) I am insane and imagine all of this, and the events that followed were mere coincidents.

I believe myself to be sane. ... ... ... :bugeye:

I can impose my will onto others as well, without psychic powers. You may just be tapping into your subconscious where it is always active.

Rantaak:

""He cannot directly experience others, as post modernism disallows this". What I mean by that is that he cannot truly know what others thoughts are, simply from the senses connected directly to his brain (sight, touch, smell, hearing, taste). He can only assume that he understands what they're saying or attempting to communicate."

So in essence: He is detached from them mentally is what you are saying? Require the proxy of their own intellet making manifest itself to provide any meaningful contact?

"A) I have experienced a direct linking to the consciences of others via soul to soul, which has lead me to be able to influence their minds by the sheer power of will, resulting in bizarre actions, hallucination, and remote viewing."

Could you elaborate on these experiences?

"or B) I am insane and imagine all of this, and the events that followed were mere coincidents."

We must consider this and also BSfilter's suggestions, too. But first let's talk about this experience of yours.

these experiences of mine.... well. I've caused people to hallucinate before (without the use of drugs heh) by simply willing it to happen without their knowledge (i made decapitated heads appear around the rooms, the walls grew thorned ivy, the light oscillated in brightness, the room seemed to melt, i made my face turn into a pig's. aside from that, i've had visions of people doing things miles away, and then confirmed that they were doing it. (i told a girl what color her shirt was (it was a brand new shirt that she was wearing for the first time), i also told her that she put a strand of hair behind her ear several seconds after it happened, and that she had died her hair the same color as her shirt). I influenced a girl to pick a card that i wanted her to pick from a deck of cards (completely randomly and without seeing the face). I have also caused a light bulb to explode without touching it while no one was around, by simply willing it to. Perhaps the soul has power over inanimate objects? i dunno. ive made doors open, consumed drinks from 5 feet away (apple juice by the way.. good stuff). all sorts of things that modern science does not allow for as far as i know. but then, could just be my own reality.. who knows. those are some of the experiences i've had.

Can you perform the light-bulb-popping trick repeatedly, on demand? Or the distance drink consumption? Or the psychic opening of doors?

James Randi would like to hear from you. It's worth a cool million dollars:

http://randi.org/research/challenge.html

Good luck!

Rantaak:

Can you repeat any of these psychic events on demand? And can you have these people that were interacting with you give testimony on your behalf regarding them? Moreover, do you have a distance at which your alledged psychic powers cease to work? Or can you express them over large distances? If you think that your psychic powers may work over exceedingly large distances, would you be willing to engage in a personal experiment with myself regarding these things? We can perform it here on SciForums in the Paranormal section.

I don't have control over these on demand. They happen randomly. The longest distance I recall of an occurrance was within a 10 mile radius, although I assume that there is no limit. I have not experienced these events in months. Prince_James, if you were willing to befriend and spend time with me on an almost daily basis as I do with my friends, you might witness one of these events. One of my friends can testify. The one I caused to hallucinate is no longer my friend. The other one I caused to choose the card was stoned at the time and probably cannot remember. She and I are not on good terms anymore either. Assuming my statements are true, what do you think of my proposition about the souls?

What do you think of my proposition about earning a coooooooool million dollars?

http://randi.org/research/challenge.html

Rantaak:

"I don't have control over these on demand. They happen randomly. The longest distance I recall of an occurrance was within a 10 mile radius, although I assume that there is no limit. I have not experienced these events in months."

How do you then know it is an act of will, if it is a random occurrence? For randomness must preclude the capacity for such to work according to your will, no? And without repeatability, how do you know it is real?

"Prince_James, if you were willing to befriend and spend time with me on an almost daily basis as I do with my friends, you might witness one of these events. "

Sadly, that seems to be an impossibility.

"One of my friends can testify."

Could you have him or her relate the story from his perspective here?

"The other one I caused to choose the card was stoned at the time and probably cannot remember."

Wouldn't this state of being stoned likely interfere with the validity of the event in one way or another?

"Assuming my statements are true, what do you think of my proposition about the souls? "

I do not know if the soul is what one must speak about here. We can, for instance, simply speak about the mind, the unconscious (collective or personal), the mind being more complicated than we know it is, different senses developing, et cetera. What does a soul - which is a very vague concept - have to do with this? For instance, can you eveny define the soul?

That being said, these experiences, if valid and caused by something within you, would make something, at the very least, capable of translating one's will onto matter directly. At the very least, that seems to be the case.

How do you then know it is an act of will, if it is a random occurrence? For randomness must preclude the capacity for such to work according to your will, no? And without repeatability, how do you know it is real?

I am not positive that this is an act of will, there is an element of chance. The only reason I have to believe this to be will is due to probability.

Could you have him or her relate the story from his perspective here?
Yes, I will speak with her within a few days and have her do so.

Wouldn't this state of being stoned likely interfere with the validity of the event in one way or another?

She was stoned. I was not. I was also speechless, I allowed her to choose freely.

What does a soul - which is a very vague concept - have to do with this? For instance, can you even define the soul?

I define the soul as the entity residing within a higher plane of existance that has power over and enables our consciences. The consciousness is the soul, but a mere representation within our plane of existence; not its entirety.

Rantaak:

"I am not positive that this is an act of will, there is an element of chance. The only reason I have to believe this to be will is due to probability."

The fact that it has not been repeatable consistantly, nor do such things manifest often enough, makes me regrettably, at this moment, take the opposite viewpoint.

"Yes, I will speak with her within a few days and have her do so."

Great.

"She was stoned. I was not. I was also speechless, I allowed her to choose freely."

People are more exposed to subtle influences similar to hypnosis when in altered states. A far more banal reason for her choice of card could be found in that. Moreover, did you repeatedly have her draw cards you wanted?

"I define the soul as the entity residing within a higher plane of existance that has power over and enables our consciences. The consciousness is the soul, but a mere representation within our plane of existence; not its entirety. "

Well the question are:

What is a higher plane of existences?

Where are they located?

How do they have power over our consciousness?

What else does it encompass besides our own consciousnesses?

By the way: Conscience means the internal moral sense, whereas consciousness means the mental activity and such. You seem to often confuse the two, unless you mean that the soul is our moral sense.

What is a higher plane of existences?

matter/energy that is beyond our range of perception. there are all kinds of "matter" you know, like water, fire and air. then it's logical to assume that even though we can't see anything in the vacuum of space it is full of energy.

worlds within worlds. ethereal galaxies.

Where are they located?

everywhere, but we can't see them.

How do they have power over our consciousness?

because they are consciousness, like everything else.

C7ityi:

"matter/energy that is beyond our range of perception. there are all kinds of "matter" you know, like water, fire and air. then it's logical to assume that even though we can't see anything in the vacuum of space it is full of energy."

I would agree that even the relative vacuum of space is filled with energy and substance.

"everywhere, but we can't see them."

Then the question of how do you know they are everywhere is begged, is it not?

Then the question of how do you know they are everywhere is begged, is it not?

To know that they are there you need a paranormal ability (clairvoyance, I think), I don't have that so I don't really know, I just believe but I'm not sure why I believe... maybe because enlightened people have said that they exist.

I don't believe in a soul as separate from the brain, but I do know that the brain performs many more thoughts than we can be aware of. For instance, it beats our heart, and it does other subconscious things. There isn't really a good theory about it, so it attains mystical qualities.

You say we cannot percieve this hidden actor, but only it's effects, which we call consciousness. But I ask you, can you even percieve your conscious mind?

Just to be a word Nazi,
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/conscience
Conscience is not properly used to refer to consciousness.

You guys obviously haven't known existabrent.
Ignobles.

And we never will.

How do you know that.

C7ityi_:

"To know that they are there you need a paranormal ability (clairvoyance, I think), I don't have that so I don't really know, I just believe but I'm not sure why I believe... maybe because enlightened people have said that they exist. "

How do you know they are trustworthy? Specifically when their findings are not verified by other sources of authority?

spidergoat:

"You say we cannot percieve this hidden actor, but only it's effects, which we call consciousness. But I ask you, can you even percieve your conscious mind"

Though this was not fielded for me, I thought I'd take a stab at it:

Can we not perceive our conscious mind through acting through it? Everytime I speak to myself internally, am I not perceiving my conscious mind?

[People are more exposed to subtle influences similar to hypnosis when in altered states. A far more banal reason for her choice of card could be found in that. Moreover, did you repeatedly have her draw cards you wanted?]

No, first try.

And I apologize, I don't mean that our souls are moral sense. I mean that they are consciousness. Thank you for clearing that up :-)

No problemo Rantaak.

But just on one try is not very convincing in that one specific instance. Try doing it multiple times over, each time getting the card you want to be picked by the person. That would more acutely establish your powers if any exist.

Sometmes i think along these lines too, what if im just playing out a grand cosmic game where people are controlled in groups via hierarchies of higher consciousness with the intention of seeing what exactly we'll do if presented with a particular situation, will we get in line with the status quo or dance to our own tune?
We already play these kind of thought experiments with each other, with other life forms and with our current rather crude AI. It would be the ultimate joke if the biggest thought experiment of all was being played on us by our own souls.
Then again, ive yet to really see anything to suggest that this is the case, although ive come across other people (in print) who seem thoroughly convinced of it.

Sometmes i think along these lines too, what if im just playing out a grand cosmic game where people are controlled in groups via hierarchies of higher consciousness with the intention of seeing what exactly we'll do if presented with a particular situation, will we get in line with the status quo or dance to our own tune?
We already play these kind of thought experiments with each other, with other life forms and with our current rather crude AI. It would be the ultimate joke if the biggest thought experiment of all was being played on us by our own souls.
Then again, ive yet to really see anything to suggest that this is the case, although ive come across other people (in print) who seem thoroughly convinced of it.

Woo. Finally someone has given me an interesting reply rather than fixing my spelling errors!

Anyway, yeah. That's something that drives me further towards hedonism. I mean, we're all really hedonists at heart, we just don't want to admit it. Whatever. Might as well enjoy it, right?

Woo. Finally someone has given me an interesting reply rather than fixing my spelling errors!
Anyway, yeah. That's something that drives me further towards hedonism. I mean, we're all really hedonists at heart, we just don't want to admit it. Whatever. Might as well enjoy it, right?
Actually i personally dont think we are hedonists at heart, i say this because i know some hardcore hedonists who are all about finding the next sensory experience to give them a bigger fix than the last.
And theyre all in therapy, all have atempted suicide, in my experience hedonists are some of the most choronically unhappy people you could possibly meet.
Which leads me to think that we cant be pleasure seekers at heart, because if we were hedonists would be the happiest people on earth surely?
Having said that, ive nothing against hedonism, just as long as the price isnt someone else having a shit time. Responsible fun and all that ;)

Can we not perceive our conscious mind through acting through it? Everytime I speak to myself internally, am I not perceiving my conscious mind?
Can you percieve the source of that internal dialogue?

Spidergoat:

As the calculator and the formulator of the thoughts and words necessary, one can surely tell that it is oneself. And even if one is stricked, one can point to oneself being tricked, and therefore show that there is a being capable of perception which one most surely is.

I'm suggesting that you can't observe the observer any more than you can see directly the back of your head.

Spidergoat:

When one experiences pain buried deep into a limb or the torso, is it necessary to see the part which pains in order to know that it pains?