God is a meaningless word. A supposed diety with no identity, other than speculation of it's existence or not; there's no evidence to it's existence or lack thereof. However with every new scientific discovery we get closer to refuting it's non-existence. Godless
of course i am not searching for solid evidence. I am wondering how religous sects come to their conclusion that god is a being or that god is not a being. what string of logic do they follow to come to the conclusion that god is or is not a being. mabey its the word "being" that im getting caught up on, because a being is of course something that exists, so saying he is a being means that he does exist. while saying he is not a being would mean he could be what.....he is a non-physical thought that encompasses space? surely you can tell that im new to this
you give good question from what i am learning we have to go way back to ancient Greece, to th time of the transition from classical Dionysianism to Orphism dont have url on me right now, pbut if you google From Orphism to Gnosticism you should find the essay that will give more depth about what i am about to say basically with Classical Dionysianism there was the ritual experience (alto it doesn't specifally say so in the essay i give here, i have found out tis from other spurces, such as from J.M.Allgro's research in his book, The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross) of communally partaking of a psychedelic sacrament where by the celebrants beliefed they were possessed by god. Now the very sacrament was called 'Dionysos' and 's/he' was known as the 'god of many names'--these neames included the 'Loosener', the god of theatre, the god of Nature etc. so, you can imagine--te celebrants woul have felt god~like. that's the essntial point!!.....they felt expanded from usual sense of self to asense of interelationship with Nature. and 'Nature' for them included universe/ 'Cosmos' now, that becomes reformed by the more philosphical Orphics who had been a part of the very open Dionysiansm. the latter had left interpretation open for individuals, but the Orphics started to impose A interpretation, and ere the first to write it down. they also were the first mystery schpol in the West, nd some scholars believe their ideas were influenced via contact with oriental mystical schools of thought So te Orphics set down their dogma, and they create a dogma which says that humans are part 'Titanic'/'of the earth' part 'Dionysos'/'divine spark'---and that tis devine spark is trpped in the body, and so they devise rituals of 'purification' so as the trapped sparks can ruturn to 'God'--who npow has been -via dogma-placed an a transendental spiritual realm, AWAY from Nature so, understand tis profound TRansition. from the Dionysian rituals --the Bacchanal--which was an ecstaic abandon to sensusal reaity, and of course involving intimate ecstaic communion with Nature. It became tamed, and diluted. for NOW it was considered a trap. Nature was said to be a trap, as was the body. the Orphic motto was 'soma sema' meaning 'the body a tomb' So can you see tis drastic transition? the cult of Orphism has been a major influence on Cristianity. and there too we can see the guilt-ridden dogma that guilts people about their bodies and Nature and te promise of a return to a spiritual home!.....agreeed? are you with me? so, in answer to you question. when the question is god a being, we must inquire what the question actually meas. for if you are me have an experience rthat seems So awesomly ecstatic tat our usul sense of self is overwhelmed wit wonder....what is that?.let me first ask you that?
i think you may have typed a bit of this wrong.? "for if you are me have an experience rthat" i didnt understand that. when we are overwhlemed with wonder that is considered a "high" when you say overwhelmed with wonder I assume you mean: in complete awe of something.
************* M*W: Welcome, Present, you've come to the right place! Religious sects do not follow "logic" or reason in their belief that god is a being. They rely on false hope, because they have been left with serious emotional deprivation usually caused by their family, their upbringing, and their religion.
exactly, as there is no logical reason for a god existing, you have to delve into fantasy and faith is all you have there.
YES...complete awe. so, say you were to look at a tree, cloud, river, and so on, your are in awe lookin at i. in fact you dont just 'look' at it, you FEEL it so deeply this feeling IS awesome.... Also, when you listen to sounds, be they natrual soundso Nature, or music, which also is natral, chanting and so on, it feels awesome and full of wonder. and dancing, ...The spontaneous urge to dance really uninhibitedly. So what i am saying is that when inspired with a psychedelic sacrament this is what can happen. Your sense of yourself seems to expand.....And as i pointed out previously, for te Bacchanalian celebrants, they believed teyt were possessed with the god of the sacrament---whioch was wine, mixed with various herbs including psychedelic subtances, most likely a sacred fungus It is then handy to compare that belief wit post-that. As i say, this celebration of life, death and regeneration, was replaced by a guilt-inducing dogma which psychologically 'split' the believing individual (ie., one whowas indoctrinated wit their dogma) into a 'bad' part,which they claimed kept one bound to body, and Nature, and a 'good' part, they said was a divine part of their now sky-god/in spiritual realm away from Nature--'Dionysos'....so see what has hapened. 'god' of the plant who tey beCOME now is made to feel more and more distant. and when psychedelic sacraments ar eventually diluted and phased out, all thats left is the dotrine--empty sybols and 'purification' rituals, and the sense of needing to escape from Nature!.....so actual experience of 'god' is denied them I our ay and age. the 'scientific age'---such experience, as ecvstasy is reduced to mere chemicals and electrical activity. and the experience is said by this mindset to be 'distorted'
duendy, so then are you saying that mabey because the greeks saw their gods (such as dionysus) as a physical being who had the powers of a god. and the cult of orphic who worshiped him had influence directly on christianity, and therefore indirectly on many other religions and branches of christianity. that that is why when people hear the word 'god', the image of an all powerfull being that exists in the shape of a human comes to their mind? we owe our misconception of god to the greeks. or did i miss it
errrrr, well exploring an issue? actually i am very very interested in all this. it didn't just occur to me over night....but if you wanna conclude so soon. fine dude.
nature follows natural laws therefor god can't exist. as soon as god presented itself in nature then it would be natural if it wasn't then nature would destroy it. in my opinion
do you really think that the orphic cult influenced communion like that, it seems far fetched to me, after all a big part of the christian beleif is around communion, and it does play into their story.
The existence and non-existence of "God" are both logical conclusions to the same set of data, but with the "God" conclusion failing "Occam's Razor". What is utterly illogical is the belief in the existence of God. If you define God as being anything other than absolutely unknowable then there is a zero-chance of you being correct, due to the infinite number of possible "God"s. Thus belief in your specifically defined God's existence is illogical. If you define "God" as being absolutely unknowable then belief in this God is logical - but as useful as anything that doesn't exist. However, if you define "God" as merely another word for a natural phenomenom (e.g. consciousness) then please deem it outside the scope of the above comments.
we are exploring your original question of whether it can be poved or disproved god can exist as a being, right?......i a coming at this from a wholly different angle from some oters, ho ten try and use facts and figures andlogic to 'prove' or 'disprove' 'God'....to me all that is pointless. for we have to dig deep into our history to see what 'Go' may even MEAN, on a deep level. ie., how the concept originates and so on. Which is why i introduced you to that important article, From Orphism to Gnosticism. did you read it yet?? for if a people in our history believed themselves possessed of god how does this relate to our idea of 'God'? How did the belief in experience being god come to wane andten people worship a DISTANT 'God'? In our modern times how do we relae to an anciet religion that presumed they were possessed by god by eating a 'plant' they assumed was god? We ARE BEing now aren't we, Present? you are being nowaren't you. what else are you but being? so if your sens of being feels expanded then you feel taken over, don't you. possessed.
duendy, yes i did read both of your articles. i think that im getting lost in your use of the word being. sometimes i cant tell if by 'being' you mean " to exist" or ....'being' as in a concsious physical creature- such as human being. well i dont know how it would feel if my sense of my own existence was expanded. if by "expanded sense of my own existence" you mean to be "on a high" as i put it earlier then yes i suppose if i beleived that this high was induced by eating a plant "or in the orphics case, god" that yes, i would feel as if i was possesed by god. and if they felt that they became a part of god, and that translated to christianity (which i dont think that comunion is related to this) but if the feeling that one could connect/be one with god, did transfer to the christians then that would explain why the christians veiw god as a being(being meaning "concious creature"), the christians could think that because god could become a their them,(both physically as was adopted from the plant, and mentally as from the high that it induced). that god was infact a being. so then that could explain why many religions veiw god as a being, since christianity thought it was, and it indirectly influenced other religions. but in all of this there is no logic that should sway me to think that god was a being. it shows why some religions do. duendy, what is the next step, and what should make ME think that God is infact a being, or "conscious, physical creature" sorry i dont have time to proofread this so disregaurd the technical errors.
