#7. Written in ancient Arabic, a language nobody could fully translate, much less understand.

#6. It does not prove the existence of God.

#5. The nonexistence of the orignal surahs written under Mohammed.

#4. Radically deviates from the Torah, Psalms and Gospels, the Quran’s supposed predecessors.

#3. Founded by a pedophile who robbed & murdered people.

#2. It failed its own challenge: the abundant contradictions in the Quran.

#1. Violent and unethical verses in the Quran resulting in disfunctional societies.

7 Reasons for REJECTING THIS THREAD

#7. Written with full intention of a fight and not rational discussion.

#6. It does not prove anything, just tosses bait to volatile users.

#5. The nonexistence of any sort of respect for the other side.

#4. Radically deviates from what normal, educated, rational people would say in this forum.

#3. Written by a complete doofus who's here to troll.

#2. It failed its objective to turn people off to Islam: it just turns people off to its author.

#1. Violent and unethical intent.

:D

Doofus? Troll? Unethical intent? You wish. See how I demolish muslims...

http://www.uk-learning.net/t23418.html

http://forum.bismikaallahuma.org/viewtopic.php?t=2491

So quit ranting and start debating. Let me add you to my resume. Make my day. :cool:

You don't get it.

Unless you show some degree of respect for whoever or whatever you debate against, you're not going to get a debate. You're going to get a fight. You sound so much like your friend Proud_Muslim here.

Your resume? I'd hardly think e-brawling would add anything impressive to it. :rolleyes:

Unless you show some degree of respect for whoever or whatever you debate against, you're not going to get a debate. You're going to get a fight. You sound so much like your friend Proud_Muslim here.


My friend, I respect people for what they are not for their bad ideas.

And the only ideas that deserved respect are the ideas that respect you & other people in return. Now tell me how you are supposed to respect this idea...

Quran 4:34 "...As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them , refuse to share their beds, beat them ; but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means : For Allah is Most High, great.




And this thread is primarily for non-muslims. To warn them of the dangers & senselessness of the false religion called Islam.

Nope, I'm afraid I agree with Maia. We've already got Vienna and a couple of others cluttring things up with vehement anti islamic propaganda, as well as Pround muslim telling us all why Islam is wonderful and will take over the world. I'm thinking we need to ban the lot of you.


"I respect people for what they are not for their bad ideas."

And? I've met bad muslims and good ones, bad christians and good ones. You cant simply lump them all together.

"And the only ideas that deserved respect are the ideas that respect you & other people in return"

Ideas dont respect anyone, people do. People make sense and nonsense out of the best and worst ideas imaginable.

"I respect people for what they are not for their bad ideas."

And? I've met bad muslims and good ones, bad christians and good ones. You cant simply lump them all together.

And you missed the point. I dont criticize people (in general), I criticize ideas. It is the INTOLERANT IDEAS that should not be tolerated.


"And the only ideas that deserved respect are the ideas that respect you & other people in return"

Ideas dont respect anyone, people do. People make sense and nonsense out of the best and worst ideas imaginable.
Ideas may suggest who or who not to respect. Like the verse I mentioned. It has little respect for wives who are FEARED to be disloyal. Think. See if there is any way you could personally make sense of that verse for beating feared wives. It would only make sense to you if you approve domestic violence.

Does anyone notice the absolutely UNCANNY way that they perfectly describe Christianity? It's really quite funny!

DoctorNO, welcome to sciforums
check this site (www.apostatesofislam.com/) out. i suspect you'll like it

your points...

#7. is today's Arabic different than Arabian Arabic? it may be different, but it could still be translated

#6. no religion 'proves' the existence of God

#4. its deviations in themselves do not mean anything

#3. a robbing murdering pedophile eh... don't lump them all in one group... some of them are nice ;)

#2. Qur'an's contradictions... give an example

#1. violent verses? maybe. you'll find those in the Torah and New Testament (G-d's vengeance is pretty bad)
as for unethical verses, you're judging those verses by today's standards.. but I guess a holy book, or someone who is 'divine' should be able to pass the test and be rightious and applicable for all times... something both the book and the prophet fail to do (imho) in some aspects

tell me, is Islam really to blame for the disfunctional societies? if so, then how?

#7. Written in ancient Arabic, a language nobody could fully translate, much less understand.

do you know how many different versions of the Bible are out???

#6. It does not prove the existence of God.

right, it is IMPOSSIBLE for me to prove that I myself exist, much less God, tell me what religion proves that God exists!!!

#5. The nonexistence of the orignal surahs written under Mohammed.

dunno what surahs are, but im guessing that you are just guessing that they dont exist

#4. Radically deviates from the Torah, Psalms and Gospels, the Quran’s supposed predecessors.

mix red and green and you get something radically different to either of them. Mix sodium (a poison) and chlorine (another poison) and you get something that we add to food

#3. Founded by a pedophile who robbed & murdered people.

id want to see proof for the first two, the Christian God has blood on his hands, so does the guy who founded Rome, the first settlers of American have native's blood on theirs, and they also took their land away. If we're gonna bring up pedophiles, do you watch the news? alot of preists are being charged for peadophilia lately

#2. It failed its own challenge: the abundant contradictions in the Quran.

old testament contradicts new and each of them contradict themselves

#1. Violent and unethical verses in the Quran resulting in disfunctional societies.

the Bible goes into a hell of a lot of detail about violence, young kids being ripped apart by animals so God could punish the parents. How are they disfunctional? They have produced some disfunctional people, but then again, so has every religion

think of seven more please, i got nothing better to do

#7. is today's Arabic different than Arabian Arabic? it may be different, but it could still be translated

Not fully. There are some words arabs cant quite agree on, like the word “dharaba”.


#6. no religion 'proves' the existence of God

That is why there is no point converting to islam. Stay in your own religions.


#4. its deviations in themselves do not mean anything

It means that those older texts has nothing to do with the quran, contrary to its claims. That the quran was just an invention by mohammed who only plagiarized misunderstood concepts from Christianity & Judaism.


#3. a robbing murdering pedophile eh... don't lump them all in one group... some of them are nice ;)

I was referring to their prophet Mohammad who married & had sex with a 9 year old “woman”. Who plundered peaceful merchant caravans. Who assassinated his critics, one of whom was a mother of several children.


#2. Qur'an's contradictions... give an example

Gladly.

023.014
PICKTHAL: Then fashioned We the drop a clot, then fashioned We the clot a little lump, then fashioned We the little lump bones, then clothed the bones with flesh, and then produced it as another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of creators!

This verse was supposed to be referring to the embryonic stages. The problem is that there is no stage wherein an embryo become bones before being covered with flesh. A scientific contradiction.



#1. violent verses? maybe. you'll find those in the Torah and New Testament (G-d's vengeance is pretty bad)
as for unethical verses, you're judging those verses by today's standards.. but I guess a holy book, or someone who is 'divine' should be able to pass the test and be rightious and applicable for all times... something both the book and the prophet fail to do (imho) in some aspects

The difference is that in Islam the violent & unethical verses are being practiced. That is why the huge majority of muslim states are plagued with intolerance, bigotry, poverty & human rights abuses.


tell me, is Islam really to blame for the disfunctional societies? if so, then how?
Islam contains laws that violate freedom, equality & human rights. And so a society ruled by islam suffers from these laws. You can see the result around us: Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Iran, Pakistan, Libya. To understand this more clearly I suggest you read this very good article by a former muslim scholar Anwar Shaikh….

http://www.islamreview.org/AnwarShaikh/islam/IslamicLaw.html

Case #3. Islam was founded by a pedophile who robbed & murdered people.

PEDOPHILIA

These were taken from the Hadiths, the second most important religious text in Islam. Also the most reliable source of historical accounts regarding the life of Mohammed.

From Bukhari vol. 7, #65:
"Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: "I have been informed that Aisha remained with the prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).""

From Abu Dawud, Vol. 2, #2116:
"Aisha said, "The Apostle of Allah married me when I was seven years old." (The narrator Sulaiman said: "Or six years."). " He had intercourse with me when I was 9 years old. "

Bukhari vol. 5, #234 says:
[i]"Narrated Aisha: The prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six. We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Harith Kharzraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's messenger came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age. "


BANDITRY

http://www.worldhistory.com/wiki/M/Muhammad.htm

In Medina a few emigrant Muslim Makkans, with the approval of Muhammad, set out in normal Arab fashion on razzias ("raids") hoping to loot Makkah on their way to Syria. About the same time Muhammad changed the direction of the Qibla from Jerusalem to Makkah. In March of 624 Muhammad led about 300 men on a razzia to attack a Makkan caravan that was led by Abu Sufyan, the head of the Umayyah clan.


MURDER & ASSASSINATIONS

The following were also the hot topic of a debate in
http://www.faithfreedom.org/debates/Shahzad1.htm
Wherein a muslim tried to justify the morality of these assassinations.


http://www.answering-islam.org/Muhammad/Enemies/asma.html

The Death of `Asma' Bint Marwan
From Ibn Sa`d's Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir, translated by S. Moinul Haq, volume 2, page 31.
Then (occurred) the sariyyah of `Umayr ibn `Adi Ibn Kharashah al-Khatmi against `Asma' Bint Marwan, of Banu Umayyah Ibn Zayd, when five nights had remained from the month of Ramadan, in the beginning of the nineteenth month from the hijrah of the apostle of Allah. `Asma' was the wife of Yazid Ibn Zayd Ibn Hisn al-Khatmi. She used to revile Islam, offend the prophet and instigate the (people) against him. She composed verses. Umayr Ibn Adi came to her in the night and entered her house. Her children were sleeping around her. There was one whom she was suckling. He searched her with his hand because he was blind, and separated the child from her. He thrust his sword in her chest till it pierced up to her back. Then he offered the morning prayers with the prophet at al-Medina. The apostle of Allah said to him: "Have you slain the daughter of Marwan?" He said: "Yes. Is there something more for me to do?" He [Muhammad] said: "No. Two goats will butt together about her. This was the word that was first heard from the apostle of Allah. The apostle of Allah called him `Umayr, "basir" (the seeing).
---------
The Murder of Abu `Afak

http://www.answering-islam.org/Muhammad/Enemies/abuafak.html

FROM ALI DASHTI'S "23 YEARS: A STUDY OF THE PROPHETIC CAREER OF MOHAMMAD", (3) page 100:
Abu Afak, a man of great age (reputedly 120 years) was killed because he had lampooned Mohammad. The deed was done by Salem b. Omayr at the behest of the Prophet, who had asked, "Who will deal with this rascal for me?" The killing of such an old man moved a poetess, Asma b. Marwan, to compose disrespectful verses about the Prophet, and she too was assassinated."

prophets don't murder people... they send them to heaven
prophets don't rape (consumate) 9 year old girls... they bring heaven to them
prophets don't pillage... they collect jizziyah from the dhimmi's

#7. Written in ancient Arabic, a language nobody could fully translate, much less understand.

do you know how many different versions of the Bible are out???


There are many versions of the bible but the message are all the same. On the otherhand there are fewer versions of the quran but the messages vary. One of those radical versions are the Khalifa translation. Other modern translations of the quran were created to please the Politically Correct masses of the West, in violation of the traditional understanding of the quranic messages.


#6. It does not prove the existence of God.

right, it is IMPOSSIBLE for me to prove that I myself exist, much less God, tell me what religion proves that God exists!!!


You have proven to everybody that you exist simply by posting in this forum. And yes you are right, no religion is able to prove the existence of God. That is why there is no point converting to Islam. It doesn’t offer anything positively new.


#5. The nonexistence of the orignal surahs written under Mohammed.

dunno what surahs are, but im guessing that you are just guessing that they dont exist


Surahs are the chapters in the quran. According to muslim histories they were originally written on camel skins, wood, parchment & cloth. None of them exists today. Muslim histories say that their 3rd caliph known as Uthman destroyed all the older manuscripts after he made his own compilation of the quran for everybody to use. And so Muslims have no choice but to ASSUME that Uthman’s version was faithful to the originals that he destroyed.


#4. Radically deviates from the Torah, Psalms and Gospels, the Quran’s supposed predecessors.

mix red and green and you get something radically different to either of them. Mix sodium (a poison) and chlorine (another poison) and you get something that we add to food


You are correct. The quran is a mixture of older colors that produced a totally new & different color. In religious terms that makes islam a false religion.


#3. Founded by a pedophile who robbed & murdered people.

id want to see proof for the first two, the Christian God has blood on his hands, so does the guy who founded Rome, the first settlers of American have native's blood on theirs, and they also took their land away. If we're gonna bring up pedophiles, do you watch the news? alot of preists are being charged for peadophilia lately


Priests are not prophets. Settlers are not prophets. Prophets are supposed to be the prime examples of morality far beyond any priest, pastor, rabbi or settler.

I posted above the proofs you needed to see.


#2. It failed its own challenge: the abundant contradictions in the Quran.

old testament contradicts new and each of them contradict themselves


Thats right. The quran is not much different in consistency in comparison with your bible. So for the sake of your family & friends just stick to your ancestral religion.



#1. Violent and unethical verses in the Quran resulting in disfunctional societies.

the Bible goes into a hell of a lot of detail about violence, young kids being ripped apart by animals so God could punish the parents. How are they disfunctional? They have produced some disfunctional people, but then again, so has every religion


I am not a Christian but I know it is one thing for a “God” to do the despicable punishment and it is another for a “God” to command humans to do the despicable punishment. Christianity is more of the former. Islam is more of the latter. Which is why Christians today are more peaceful, moral & prosperous than muslims.


think of seven more please, i got nothing better to do

Think again, bud. :D

#7. Written in ancient Arabic, a language nobody could fully translate, much less understand.

#6. It does not prove the existence of God.

#5. The nonexistence of the orignal surahs written under Mohammed.

#4. Radically deviates from the Torah, Psalms and Gospels, the Quran’s supposed predecessors.

#3. Founded by a pedophile who robbed & murdered people.

#2. It failed its own challenge: the abundant contradictions in the Quran.

#1. Violent and unethical verses in the Quran resulting in disfunctional societies.

7, 6, 4, 2, and 1 all describe the bible just as easily.

7, 6, 4, 2, and 1 all describe the bible just as easily.

#7 As I said the various bible translations do agree on the same message. Could anyone show us a verse from 2 different bible translations that says different things?

#6 Yes this holds for every religion we have today.

#4 But bible apologists are able to reconcile the new testament to the old. That could not be said of the musim apologists who abandoned these books altogether accusing it as “too corrupt” that they are the ones that have deviated from the Islamic message. Silly isn’t it?

#1 The Christian God does all atrocities. The Muslm God make the muslims do all the atrocities. See the difference?

#7 As I said the various bible translations do agree on the same message. Could anyone show us a verse from 2 different bible translations that says different things?

back me up here, people, when you translate something zillions of times from languages that have gone all but completely out of use in the age of the translators errors are going to be inevitable.

#6 Yes this holds for every religion we have today.

Oh? So that makes it fair grounds to reject Islam but not to reject Christianity?

#4 But bible apologists are able to reconcile the new testament to the old. That could not be said of the musim apologists who abandoned these books altogether accusing it as “too corrupt” that they are the ones that have deviated from the Islamic message. Silly isn’t it?

But at the same time there are clear contradictions between the old testament and the new, and having argued here for quite some time, the standard reply from those who hold the bible dear is that the new supercedes the old. In essence abandoning portions of it (except when it servers their own agendas I suppose).

#1 The Christian God does all atrocities. The Muslm God make the muslims do all the atrocities. See the difference?

Oh is that so? Then why do religious nuts kill doctors who perform abortions? Why did we need the crusades or the inquisition? Why does the religious right think that God is urging them to seize control of this nation? You can't just slump off all of the atrocities of any religion on God, it's always the people who follow that religion.

I suppose that #2 was just a no contest?

Oh, and in the future you might want to try spelling Muslim correctly. Muslm sounds like dialogue being spoken by a hick.

#7. Written in ancient Arabic, a language nobody could fully translate, much less understand.

#6. It does not prove the existence of God.

#5. The nonexistence of the orignal surahs written under Mohammed.

#4. Radically deviates from the Torah, Psalms and Gospels, the Quran’s supposed predecessors.

#3. Founded by a pedophile who robbed & murdered people.

#2. It failed its own challenge: the abundant contradictions in the Quran.

#1. Violent and unethical verses in the Quran resulting in disfunctional societies.
Charming. Really charming.

7) You're joking right? Ancient Arabic is very capable of being translated. Just like the hieroglyphics in Ancient Egypt and Ancient Meso America are capable of being translated. In fact, all are still being translated today. Heck, the bible is also being translated, as is the Torah. So what's your point? Should we stop reading all ancient texts because it's just too damn hard..?

6) Can you name me one religion that proves the existence of God? Just one? You then go on to claim that because of this point, we should just all stay in our own religions instead of converting. Why? If Islam fails to prove the existence of God just like all other religions fail, why not convert? Wouldn't that make all religions the same? Why should people stay in their own little boxes? Your whole argument could be applied to any religion on the planet. What made you pick Islam? Want to be popular with all the Islamic denouncers out there?

5) Mmmm hmmm and I'm still waiting for someone to show me the original tablets of the 10 commandments. Or how about the cross Jesus was crucified on? How about the talking bush? Can someone show me that? That would mean since these items can't be produced but are only told to us through the writings of others, that they did not exist. Do you get where I'm heading with this? You gleefully discount one religion but you fail to show the same consideration to other religions. By your standard, all religions should be rejected. You only picked Islam as your rejection of choice because of the amount of anti-islamic feelings that exist in the world.

4) Really? Well imagine that! Who'd have thought. Such deviations mean nothing. Zero. All religions deviate from each other in certain aspects. Look at the Mormons as an example.

3) Were you there to see him murder these people? Did you actually see him steal from people? Such actions were normal in all early religions of the times. Christians stole and killed and raped and plundered. Hell I'm sure if you delve into some of the authors of the bible you'd find that some are guilty of worse. And as for the peadophilia. If his marrying supposedly Aishah (sp?) when she was 9 was correct, how would it differ to the current times (back then), when girls were married with 3 children by the time they were 12? Mary herself was said to be 14 when she gave birth to Jesus. Does this make God a peadophile? It was culturally acceptable to marry young girls at that time. It is still considered to be culturally normal in certain parts of the world today. Lets look at the Catholic church for example. Some priests there still think that it is ok to rape little children behind the altar. Yet you do not include them in your little reasons. I'd say that would be one of the main reasons to reject Catholicism, instead of rejecting Islam for Muhammed (supposedly) committing an act which was widely practiced and culturally acceptable at the time.

2) I'd type out all the contradictions in the Bible but I'm busy for the next two years. All religions are rife with contradictions. Islam is no worse or no better than any other in this regard. So again I ask, why do you single out Islam, when all religions are guilty of the same crimes?

1) Oh that's a classic one. Are you aware that the Bible also contains verses which today are considered to be violent and unethical? Hell I still remember being terrified and unable to sleep in the dark as a child after reading some of the verses in the bible. As for your little statement about Muslim states. Look again. Christian states can also be accused of the same things. You only look at one instead of all. Sure it's easy to blame Islam and to point the hating finger at Islam. But you fail in doing so because you did not even take other religions, who are guilty of the same or worse, into consideration. Look at the way that some Christian groups blow up family planning clinics and how they murder the staff who work there. They are following the teachings of the bible, fighting for the right of the child, yet they kill another in doing so. They feel that God talks to them. Some Christian church leaders are encouraging them to do these acts, I'd call them unethical and violent. Look at the treatment of homosexuals in Christianity. They're treatment could only be called violent, unethical and against human rights. And as for your little statement of human rights abuses. I have two words for you. Guantanamo Bay! Here's another one.... Australian refugee camps! Here we have Christian believing Governments committing human rights abuses.

There are many many more but frankly I think I've devoted more than enough time to you and your disgusting little thread.

Look at the way that some Christian groups blow up family planning clinics and how they murder the staff who work there. They are following the teachings of the bible, fighting for the right of the child, yet they kill another in doing so. They feel that God talks to them. Some Christian church leaders are encouraging them to do these acts, I'd call them unethical and violent. Look at the treatment of homosexuals in Christianity. They're treatment could only be called violent, unethical and against human rights. And as for your little statement of human rights abuses. I have two words for you. Guantanamo Bay! Here's another one.... Australian refugee camps! Here we have Christian believing Governments committing human rights abuses.

I have two words for you - ISLAMIC TERRORISM

Vienna

I have one word for you... TERRORISM.

Terrorism has no religion and knows no boundaries. It doesn't care about your religion, race, sex, creed. Those who commit terrorist acts don't represent the whole of their religious, racial or sexual group. They act of their own accord. If I go out and blow up a building tomorrow, would you view all Australians as being terrorists? I'd say probably not. When Timothy McVeigh blew up the Federal building, did the world view all Americans as terrorists? Not that I recall. Did they view all right wing christian groups as terrorists? Nope. What the world did was blame the individual(s). Islam has nothing to do with terrorism. If we look into history and look at all the terrorist acts committed in the last 100 years, we'd see that non-Muslims have committed more terrorist acts than Muslims have. I point you to Northern Ireland as a starting point.

The new world order finds it easy to blame one particular group of people because it is easy to do so. It's easy to point the finger. One dickhead tells his own little group of followers to do something and just because these people are Muslims, the whole world points the finger at all Muslims. The majority of Muslims had not even heard of OBL until the last 5 years. They didn't know who he was. Yet today he's become the catch cry of why Islam is supposedly bad and why Muslims should be persecuted. Makes me think of the witchtrials of the past actually. Wrongful persecution of a group of people who are innocent. OBL and his followers are guilty, but instead of the world turning their anger on these particular individuals, they turn that anger on the innocent Muslims who have nothing to do with OBL.

back me up here, people, when you translate something zillions of times from languages that have gone all but completely out of use in the age of the translators errors are going to be inevitable.


Just show us at least 2 same verses from different translators that gives 2 different messages.


Oh? So that makes it fair grounds to reject Islam but not to reject Christianity?

Reject all of them if you want. My point here is that Islam is no different in this term so what is the point in converting? Either reject religion or stay with your original religion. Don’t go out of the frying pan and into the fire.



But at the same time there are clear contradictions between the old testament and the new, and having argued here for quite some time, the standard reply from those who hold the bible dear is that the new supercedes the old. In essence abandoning portions of it (except when it servers their own agendas I suppose).


If bible apologists are able to reconcile them then it aint so clear a contradiction after all isn’t it? Muslim apologists don’t even try to reconcile the quran from the earlier books because the quran is really irreconcilable with those two.


Oh is that so? Then why do religious nuts kill doctors who perform abortions? Why did we need the crusades or the inquisition? Why does the religious right think that God is urging them to seize control of this nation? You can't just slump off all of the atrocities of any religion on God, it's always the people who follow that religion.

Do tell me what bible commandments they have been following to commit such atrocities. Tell me the actual verses they said they used. Tell me.

You see there is a difference between (a) killing in the name of God & (b) killing by the command of God. Christians could only fall under a, which is why the crusades only happened a millenia ago, why the inquisition only happened 500 years ago, why only the very rare nut cases killed abortion doctors.


I suppose that #2 was just a no contest?

What do you mean?


Oh, and in the future you might want to try spelling Muslim correctly. Muslm sounds like dialogue being spoken by a hick.
Such petty policing solves nothing.

MORE ABOUT ''PEACE'' IN THE BIBLE :

JG 3:29 The Israelites kill about 10,000 Moabites.

JG 3:31 (A restatement.) Shamgar killed 600 Philistines with an oxgoad.

JG 4:21 Jael takes a tent stake and hammers it through the head of Sisera, fastening it to the ground.

JG 7:19-25 The Gideons defeat the Midianites, slay their princes, cut off their heads, and bring the heads back to Gideon.

JG 8:15-21 The Gideons slaughter the men of Penuel.

JG 9:45 Abimalech and his men kill all the people in the city.

JG 11:29-39 Jepthah sacrifices his beloved daughter, his only child, according to a vow he has made with the Lord.

JG 14:19 The Spirit of the Lord comes upon a man and causes him to slay thirty men.

JG 15:15 Samson slays 1000 men with the jawbone of an ass.

JG 16:27-30 Samson, with the help of the Lord, pulls down the pillars of the Philistine house and causes his own death and that of 3000 other men and women.

JG 18:27 The Danites slay the quiet and unsuspecting people of Laish.

JG 20:43-48 The Israelites smite 25,000+ "men of valor" from amongst the Benjamites, "men and beasts and all that they found," and set their towns on fire.

JG 21:10-12 "... Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead with the edge of the sword and; also the women and little ones.... every male and every woman that has lain with a male you shall utterly destroy." They do so and find four hundred young virgins whom they bring back for their own use.

1 SAMUEL AND 2 SAMUEL ("HOLY BIBLE").
1SA 6:19 God kills seventy men (or so) for looking into the Ark (at him?). (Note: The early Israelites apparently thought the Ark to be God's abode.)

1SA 11:11 With the Lord's blessing, Saul and his men cut down the Ammonites.

1SA 15:3, 7-8 "This is what the Lord says: Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep,
camel and ass ....' And Saul ... utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword."

1SA 14:31 Jonathan and his men strike down the Philistines.

1SA 15:33 "Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the Lord ...."

1SA 18:7 The women sing as they make merry: "Saul has slain his thousands and David his ten thousands."

1SA 18:27 David murders 200 Philistines, then cuts off their foreskins.

1SA 30:17 David smites the Amalekites.

2SA 4:7-8 Rechan and Baanah kill Ish-bosheth, behead him, and take his head to David.

2SA 4:12 David has Rechan and Baanah killed, their hands and feet cut off, and their bodies hanged by the pool at Hebron.

2SA 5:25 "And David did as the Lord commanded him, and smote the Philistines ...."

2SA 8:1-18 (A listing of some of David's murderous conquests.)

2SA 8:4 David hamstrung all but a few of the horses.

2SA 8:5 David slew 22,000 Syrians.

2SA 8:13 David slew 18,000 Edomites in the valley of salt and made the rest slaves.

2SA 10:18 David slew 47,000+ Syrians.

2SA 11:14-27 David has Uriah killed so that he can marry Uriah's wife, Bathsheba.

2SA 12:1, 19 The Lord strikes David's child dead for the sin that David has committed.

http://www.evilbible.com

This web site is designed to spread the vicious truth about the Bible. For far too long priests and preachers have completely ignored the vicious criminal acts that the Bible promotes. The so called “God” of the Bible makes Osama Bin Laden look like a Boy Scout.

Irrelevant. I am an even Christian but an AGNOSTIC. Proud Muslim why dont you make your own "7 reasons for rejecting christianity" or something.

Would the moderator please delete the irrelevant post above. Thank you.

Charming. Really charming.

Thank you. :)


7) You're joking right? Ancient Arabic is very capable of being translated. Just like the hieroglyphics in Ancient Egypt and Ancient Meso America are capable of being translated. In fact, all are still being translated today. Heck, the bible is also being translated, as is the Torah. So what's your point? Should we stop reading all ancient texts because it's just too damn hard..?

There are many words in ancient Arabic that even the Arabic translators cant quite agree on. Therefore language barrers limit Islam to arab speakers & readers, else if you don’t speak the language then what is the point in listening to something nobody can fully translate to you? You will just be misled by false translations. Another point is why would a god choose such a difficult language? Either that god is an imbecile or a false god. Evidences show it is the latter.


6) Can you name me one religion that proves the existence of God? Just one? You then go on to claim that because of this point, we should just all stay in our own religions instead of converting. Why? If Islam fails to prove the existence of God just like all other religions fail, why not convert? Wouldn't that make all religions the same? Why should people stay in their own little boxes? Your whole argument could be applied to any religion on the planet. What made you pick Islam? Want to be popular with all the Islamic denouncers out there?

Why not convert? For the love of your family & friends just don’t break their heart for something that gives you NO edge. Plain & simple. Love is greater than religion anytime.

If one box is on the same term with other boxes then why leave the box where your loved ones live in? Don’t.

Why do I pick on Islam? Because Islam continues to be a dangerous ideology. It commands muslims to dominate the world until the world is compelled to live under the intolerant system of Islam (quran 8:39).


5) Mmmm hmmm and I'm still waiting for someone to show me the original tablets of the 10 commandments. Or how about the cross Jesus was crucified on? How about the talking bush? Can someone show me that? That would mean since these items can't be produced but are only told to us through the writings of others, that they did not exist. Do you get where I'm heading with this? You gleefully discount one religion but you fail to show the same consideration to other religions. By your standard, all religions should be rejected. You only picked Islam as your rejection of choice because of the amount of anti-islamic feelings that exist in the world.

Irrelevant. I am not even a Christian.

I only picked Islam after 9/11. I just couldn’t take it anymore. Islamist terrorists here & there.


4) Really? Well imagine that! Who'd have thought. Such deviations mean nothing. Zero. All religions deviate from each other in certain aspects. Look at the Mormons as an example.

Read my older responses to the same issues. Mormonism actually has many similarity to Islam.


3) Were you there to see him murder these people? Did you actually see him steal from people? Such actions were normal in all early religions of the times. Christians stole and killed and raped and plundered. Hell I'm sure if you delve into some of the authors of the bible you'd find that some are guilty of worse. And as for the peadophilia. If his marrying supposedly Aishah (sp?) when she was 9 was correct, how would it differ to the current times (back then), when girls were married with 3 children by the time they were 12? Mary herself was said to be 14 when she gave birth to Jesus. Does this make God a peadophile? It was culturally acceptable to marry young girls at that time. It is still considered to be culturally normal in certain parts of the world today. Lets look at the Catholic church for example. Some priests there still think that it is ok to rape little children behind the altar. Yet you do not include them in your little reasons. I'd say that would be one of the main reasons to reject Catholicism, instead of rejecting Islam for Muhammed (supposedly) committing an act which was widely practiced and culturally acceptable at the time.

Refute the evidences I gave on the first page. What was normal in the past doesn’t necessarily make it ethical. Theft will always be theft, murder will always be murder, sex abuse will always be sex abuse. The violation of basic rights & freedoms will always be a violation. About pedophilia, read the http://www.puberty101.com/p_pubgirls.shtml . The youngest age a girl could possibly attain full sexual maturity is age 12. That makes age 14 quite reasonable. And age 9 way too young. I hope you remember how a 9 yr old girl look like. Imagine a 54 year old man mounting that baby. Its just plain perversion. :mad:

And may I remind you that priests are not prophets. Prophets are supposed to be hand-picked by God. Priests handpicked themselves. There is a huge difference. Unless you are implying that Mohammad was a false servant of God like those pedophile priests. Is that it? Being a pedophile, bandit & murder does make mohammed a false servant of God, a false prophet.


2) I'd type out all the contradictions in the Bible but I'm busy for the next two years. All religions are rife with contradictions. Islam is no worse or no better than any other in this regard. So again I ask, why do you single out Islam, when all religions are guilty of the same crimes?

The quran gave the test if there are errors in it then it couldn’t possibly be from God. Well it failed that test. Which means converts saddened their loved ones for nothing. Which means islamist martyrs are committing atrocities for nothing.


1) Oh that's a classic one. Are you aware that the Bible also contains verses which today are considered to be violent and unethical? Hell I still remember being terrified and unable to sleep in the dark as a child after reading some of the verses in the bible. As for your little statement about Muslim states. Look again. Christian states can also be accused of the same things. You only look at one instead of all. Sure it's easy to blame Islam and to point the hating finger at Islam. But you fail in doing so because you did not even take other religions, who are guilty of the same or worse, into consideration. Look at the way that some Christian groups blow up family planning clinics and how they murder the staff who work there. They are following the teachings of the bible, fighting for the right of the child, yet they kill another in doing so. They feel that God talks to them. Some Christian church leaders are encouraging them to do these acts, I'd call them unethical and violent. Look at the treatment of homosexuals in Christianity. They're treatment could only be called violent, unethical and against human rights. And as for your little statement of human rights abuses. I have two words for you. Guantanamo Bay! Here's another one.... Australian refugee camps! Here we have Christian believing Governments committing human rights abuses.

Read my response to our other friends above. And see if you can learn the difference between bible atrocities & quranic atrocities. And the significance of that to real life.


There are many many more but frankly I think I've devoted more than enough time to you and your disgusting little thread.

The truth hurts, doesn’t it?

Irrelevant. I am an even Christian but an AGNOSTIC. Proud Muslim why dont you make your own "7 reasons for rejecting christianity" or something.

Would the moderator please delete the irrelevant post above. Thank you.

That is what christians say when they are faced with LOVE from their own bible, they deny being christians !! sort of lying for jesus !! :rolleyes:

the whole world points the finger at all Muslims.

The world points the finger at Islam, and why shouldn't it?

Refute the evidences I gave on the first page. What was normal in the past doesn’t necessarily make it ethical. Theft will always be theft, murder will always be murder, sex abuse will always be sex abuse. The violation of basic rights & freedoms will always be a violation. About pedophilia, read the http://www.puberty101.com/p_pubgirls.shtml . The youngest age a girl could possibly attain full sexual maturity is age 12. That makes age 14 quite reasonable. And age 9 way too young. I hope you remember how a 9 yr old girl look like. Imagine a 54 year old man mounting that baby. Its just plain perversion. :mad:

First, prophet Muhammad (pbuh ) did not marry Aisha when she was 9, this is the first lie EXPOSED HERE:

Aisha Age at Her Marriage:
[Proves that: The Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) Married Hazrat Aishah When She was 19 Years of Age and not When She Was 9.]
by Ghulam Nabi Muslim Sahib, M.A.
Translated by: Masud Akhtar, B.A., LL.B.
The Light (Sep 24, 1981, pp. 13-17).

[Note: Many anti-Islamic sites accuse our Beloved Holy Prophet, Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, of , God Forbid, marrying a minor. We present here an article that will clear our Beloved Holy Prophet (pbuh) off this blasphemous charge. May Allah guide the opponents of Islam aright, Aameen!]

Most narrations carry misstatements about the age of Hazrat ‘Aishah Siddiqah at the time of her marriage to the Holy Prophet, (peach and blessings of Allah be upon him). They place this marriage in the tenth year of the Call and state that Aisha was only 6 years old at that time. On proper sifting of the material facts, these statements turn out to be incorrect and it becomes evident that she, in fact, was about 19 or 20 years of age when she arrived in the house of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as his wife in 2 A.H.

As far as my information goes the first voice against the common misconception about the age of Sayedah ‘Aishah at her marriage was raised by Maulana Muhammad Ali, M.A., LL.B., in 1924 in his 'Muhammad the Prophet', wherein he wrote:

"The popular misconception as to Aishah’s age may be removed here. That she had not attained majority is clear enough, but that she was not so young as six years of age is also true. In the first place, it is clear that she had reached an age when betrothal could take place in the ordinary course and must therefore have been approaching the age of majority. Again, the Isabah, speaking of the Prophet’s daughter Fatimah, says that she was about five years older than ‘Aishah. It is a well-established fact that Fatimah was born when the Ka’bah was being rebuilt, i.e., five years before the Call or a little before it, and so ‘Aishah was certainly not below ten years at the time of her marriage with the Holy Prophet (pbuh) in the tenth year of the Call. This conclusion is borne out by the testimony of ‘Aishah herself who is reported to have related that when the chapter entitled ‘The Moon’ (the 54th chapter) was revealed she was a girl playing about and that she remembered certain verses then revealed. Now the fifty-fourth chapter could not have been revealed later than the fifth year of the Call, and therefore the report which states her to have been six years old in the tenth year of the Call when her marriage ceremony was gone through cannot be correct, because this would show her to have born about the time of the revelation of the 54th chapter. All these considerations show her to have been not less than ten years old at the time of her marriage. And as the period between her marriage and its consummation was not less than five years, because the consummation took place in the second year of the Fight, it follows that she could not have been less than fifteen at that time. The popular account that she was six years at marriage and nine years at the time of consummation is decidedly not correct, because it supposes the period between the marriage and its consummation to be only three years, while this is historically wrong."


There are other important events recorded in history which provide definite evidence about the age of Hazrat ‘Aishah.

1. The well-known historian Ibn Jareer al-Tabari writes at page 50 of volume 4 of his 'Book of History': "Abu Bakr married two ladies in the days of ignorance (pre-Call era). Fateelah daughter of Abd al-Aza was the first, from whom Abdullah and Asma were born. Umm-i-Rooman was the second, from whom Abd al-Rahman and ‘Aishah were born. All the four children of Abu Bakr were born in the days of ignorance (Jahiliyyah, i.e., pre-Islamic days) from the above-named two ladies.

2. It is a well-known fact of history, that Abu Bakr’s son Abd al-Rahman fought against the Muslims in the battle of Badr. His age at that time was 21-22 years, and although he was older than ‘Aishah, there is no evidence to show that the difference between their ages was more than three or four years. This fact lends support to the view that Hazrat ‘Aishah was born four or five years before the Call.

3. The well-known historian and scholar ‘Allama ‘Imad-ud-Deen Ibn Katheer writes in his 'Al-Badayah' about Sayedah Asma’ daughter of Hazrat Abu Bakr’ (Allah be pleased with him) (and we hope Maulana Syed Abul Ala Maududi must have seen it as he referred to 'Al-Badaya' in his article): Asma’ died in 73 A.H. at the age of 100 years. She was ten years older than her sister ‘Aishah. Now according to this report ‘Asma’ would have been 27-28 years old at the time of Hijrah and since she was ten years older than Sayedah ‘Aishah, therefore the age of Sayedah ‘Aishah would have been 17 or 18 years at the time of Hijrah. Accordingly, her birth falls about four or five years before the Call, and her age at the time of the consummation of marriage in 2 A.H. will work out to 19-20 years.

4. The author of the well-known collection of Hadith 'Mishkat al-Masabeeh', Sheikh Waheed-ud-Deen, writes in his well-known book 'Ahmal fi Asma’ al-Rijjal':

"At the time of the consummation of her marriage Sayedah ‘Aishah’s age was not less than 18-19 years."

All the above quotations give ample refutation to the common misconception that Sayedah ‘Aishah’s age at the time of her Nikah was 6 years and at the time of consummation of marriage it was only 9 years. If Muslim scholars of the present era deem fit to make an objective research instead of beating the old track, they will find ample material in the pages of history to arrive at a correct age for Sayedah ‘Aishah. This indeed would be a great service to the cause of Islam. – Islamic Review, December 1980, U.S.A.

SO THE LIE THAT PROPHET MUHAMMAD (PBUH ) MARRIED A 9 YEARS OLD GIRL HAS BEEN EXPOSED, NOW LET ME MOVE TO YOUR NONSESE IN WHICH YOU WROTE:

The youngest age a girl could possibly attain full sexual maturity is age 12.

Not according to this girl:

A 9-year old Thai girl gave birth

http://www.answering-christianity.com/thaigal.jpg

The news item is from the New Straits Times, 10/3/2001.

YOUR LIES HAVE BEEN EXPOSED !!! TRY AGAIN !! :o

wow when something from the bible is actually posted showing its violence and contradiction, drno just ignores it and casts it as irrelevent. that seems to be a common theme among the self righteous and intolerant

Not only this, when they are faced with bloody murderous verses from their own bible, they even deny being christians !!! I never seen more lying crooks than those christians!! :mad:

wow when something from the bible is actually posted showing its violence and contradiction, drno just ignores it and casts it as irrelevent. that seems to be a common theme among the self righteous and intolerant

That is because this thread is about Islam, not Christianity. Create your threads about christianity and maybe youll get some attention there. Thank you. :D

Not only this, when they are faced with bloody murderous verses from their own bible, they even deny being christians !!! I never seen more lying crooks than those christians!! :mad:

Why cant you simply accept the fact that even ATHIESTS & AGNOSTICS are against Islam? Youll find hundreds of athiest & agnostic sites attacking both christianity & islam. DoctorNO is simply specializing in refuting & exposing the latter.

well you have implied that the bible lacks flaw. it does not.

Not according to this girl:

A 9-year old Thai girl gave birth

The news item is from the New Straits Times, 10/3/2001.

YOUR LIES HAVE BEEN EXPOSED !!! TRY AGAIN !! :o

What lies? My evidences came from the Bukhari Hadiths themselves, not from some cheap article like yours which did not even provide historical evidences to justify its contemporary claims.

Regarding maturity, I referred our readers to http://www.puberty101.com/p_pubgirls.shtml . And it does say there that a girl could menstruate as early as 9 yrs old, but still she is at least 3 years away from attaining full sexual maturity. 9 year old girls could be impregnated but that doest mean you could violate their best interest by statutory raping them & impregnating them. let me remind you what a 9 year old look like...

http://www.thestar.com/images/thestar/img/040329_zhang_cecilia_125.jpg

well you have implied that the bible lacks flaw. it does not.

Are you kidding? THE BIBLE IS FLAWED! But that is simply not the topic here.

Why cant you simply accept the fact that even ATHIESTS & AGNOSTICS are against Islam? Youll find hundreds of athiest & agnostic sites attacking both christianity & islam. DoctorNO is simply specializing in refuting & exposing the latter.

And I am specializing in refuting and exposing YOUR lies. :rolleyes:

What lies?

When you are faced with damming evidence, you shout LIES !! typical christian !! :D

I referred our readers to http://www.puberty101.com/p_pubgirls.shtml . And it does say there that a girl could menstruate as early as 9 yrs old, but still she is at least 3 years away from attaining full sexual maturity. 9 year old girls could be impregnated but that doest mean you could violate their best interest by statutory raping them & impregnating them. let me remind you what a 9 year old look like...

THE AMERICAN LAW ITSELF SETS THE AGE OF CONSENT TO BE 10 YEARS OLD !!!

The common law, from which America gets much of its precedents in the legal field, set the age of consent at age ten. In other words, participating in sexual activity with someone above the age of ten did not result in the crime of "statutory" rape or child molesting. The activity may have come under other statutory or informal social regulations, but anyone over the age of ten could consent to a sexual activity.

http://www.ageofconsent.com/comments/numberone.htm

Another LIE EXPOSED !!! NEXT ONE PLEASE !! :cool:

That is because this thread is about Islam, not Christianity. Create your threads about christianity and maybe youll get some attention there. Thank you. :D

you said: "Just show us at least 2 same verses from different translators that gives 2 different messages."

if htat is not you trying to show christianity is better then who knows. you have yet to produce any meaningful argument. you cant hear anything because you bantor is drowning all reason out

you said: "Just show us at least 2 same verses from different translators that gives 2 different messages."

if htat is not you trying to show christianity is better then who knows. you have yet to produce any meaningful argument. you cant hear anything because you bantor is drowning all reason out

I was just challenging a poster to prove his point. Because the validity of his point is the saturation of my point regarding ancient Arabic. Whats wrong with that?

So who is being deaf here, you or me?

THE AMERICAN LAW ITSELF SETS THE AGE OF CONSENT TO BE 10 YEARS OLD !!!
http://www.ageofconsent.com/comments/numberone.htm

Another LIE EXPOSED !!! NEXT ONE PLEASE !!

Quoting out of context? My friend that was 115 years ago. If you scroll all the way to the bottom youll see that the current ages of consent is from 13-18. Thus still complying with scientific findings according to http://www.puberty101.com/p_pubgirls.shtml

Better luck next time, bub. :cool:

a couple of words for you (and yes i know you aren't Christian)

1) ever heard of a crusade?
2) ever heard of Christians killing so called "witches"
3) ever heard of gay priest (which are against Christinaty of course!) being persecuted
4) ever heard of Christians killing doctors who perform abortions
5) ever heard of Chritsians killing prostitutes (Usually "in the name of God")
6) ever heard of kings and queen burning alive other religions (at time even different sects in their own Christian religion such as Queen Mary and such as Henry VI persecution)
7) dont you know people you thought about science were burnt alive by the church?


ever heard of Christians (americans) helping Israel by supplying money for WEAPONS
to maintain their state which by even thier OWN law (UN, NATO and US) is ILLEGAL becasue it is supporting the oppression of a captured state and promoting ethinic divsion by means of a wall.

ever heard of Bush (a firm christian) lying to the world that iraq has wepons of mass desturction and is a threat to the world. later it has a war resulting in 10,000 iraqis dying, 13,000 Iraqi soldiers dying, 500 american soldiers dying and then revelaing that Iraq has no weapons of mass destruction and forgeting the fact that it is the Christian majority country, America that has over 10,500 nukes, stelath bombers, laser defemce missiles and the only country ever to use a Nuke and also has the most pwerful, accurate, advance nukes.

THIS IS AN EXAMPLE of one lying, hypocritical Christian, even thiough he represents hundreds of millions Christians, i still dont call all Christians hypocrites etc. but you see a few individula Muslims and blame everyone.

the above post is reffering to Vienna by the way.

i am not aiming at Christians becasue i know you cant blame the actions of a few for all Christians. this is something that Vienna hasnt worked out yet so this is why she attacks Islam.

to everyine else, thank you for your replies in this thread. they show your open mindness and beliefs in a fair world where criminals are punished not the people from their religion.

as for Vienna, you need an eductaion

in the Prophets (saw) time 9 years is enough to be adult. as years go by in the society adult hood was increased in age. in those time it wasn't strange to see non muslims who were fighters, emperors at 6.7.8.9... or any age.

and, the Prophet (saw) didnt have sex with Aisha at nine. that is idea completely stupid. and anyway even if he did it isn't illegal in loads of countires anyway. England has Europes hightest age for legal sex at 16 there are European countries with the age consent of 12 onwards and even younger*.

(im sory i cannot give the names of the countires but i now for a fact this is true i just cant remeber the exact figure can anyone from European countires question tell me the age or look it up or something)

in the Prophets (saw) time 9 years is enough to be adult. as years go by in the society adult hood was increased in age. in those time it wasn't strange to see non muslims who were fighters, emperors at 6.7.8.9... or any age.

My friend, its only been 1400 years. Evolution takes millions of years. Otherwise please show us a scientific article saying that 1400 years ago a 9 year old is equivalent to a 12 year old girl today.

A girl is still a girl. A baby is still a baby. Whether its was 5000 years ago or 1400 years ago. Ancient Barbaric cultures exploit the helplessness of the young age but that doesnt make it right.


and, the Prophet (saw) didnt have sex with Aisha at nine. that is idea completely stupid.

Bukhari hadiths says so. Read my evidences at page 1.


and anyway even if he did it isn't illegal in loads of countires anyway. England has Europes hightest age for legal sex at 16 there are European countries with the age consent of 12 onwards and even younger*.

12 is the minimum age a girl could attain sexual & physical maturity.