1. Just wondering what your veiw of religion is. Who is God, what does He do, is there a heaven, hell, etc.....
2. This is a religion forum right?? Is Tony1 bashing a new religion or did I miss something??


Since I asked you to spill your guts, here is my answer.
God is everything and everywhere. No one created Him, He created everything. There is a heaven and hell....live for God and heaven is your reward....and so on.

Can't wait to hear your replies:D

My view of religion is that there is no correct one and it was a primative way of keeping people under control and preventing chaos. Today I believe religion is outdated and its fine if people want the tradition but they have to keep it out of the way of others. In other words no preaching to other people. My views are as follows -
God to me couldn't exist by todays standards
There is no heaven or hell
Death will only resume another life -by this i mean a truamatic experience will occur(death), after you will be thrown into another world (take birth for an example)
I don't know what happens when a persons body dies and niether do I care to know. All i want is to enjoy the time in this world


I think eveyone is just sick of Tony1's demeanor(i know i am)

Here are my views.

God, and indeed religion itself, is a creation of humanity designed to help us feel more secure and important. It is also designed to give us comfort in times of hardness, or when faced with death. It is also designed to encourage us to live good, morale lives by loving and helping others. While there is certainly nothing wrong with this, it has gone a bit overboard in the last 2000 years and grown into a full fledged belief complete with churches, worships, wars and crusades.

Heaven and hell are fictional ideas meant to keep us in check. In order for us to live good lives, the idea of being rewarded for good things (heaven) was developed, and to encourage us to stay away from evil things (such as murder) hell was thought up. Heaven is also a thought used to comfort children and dying people. If a child loses his mother, we tell him she is not really gone, but is waiting for him in a better place (heaven). If we just came out and said "Honey, mom is dead and you're never going to see her again" the emotional shock for the child would be overwhelming.

Tony1 is bashing everything and everyone that doesn't confirm to his beliefs. He also seems to think he is immortal, free of sin, and cannot be harmed by anything of this world.

Those are my views, if you want to discuss them or provide counter-beliefs please do, that's why I'm here :)

there is no one God or Gods, but if you like we all are Gods.
And if there are gods they are yust a part of nature as we all are, so no need in worshipping them.
there is no heaven or hell and I do not know what happens when we die. my beleif is tht we return to life[reincarnations] if not our individuality, then some of our cells and maybe dna.
I don't deny spiritual beings[ghosts, spirits, other dimmension creatures[if there are any] etc.] but I do not think of them as smth special or unnatural. All feed from force of life all are part of this universe.

I completely deny the religions we have formed. They were created to take full control of people and have done it with great success. [take a look at tony]

Tony really annoys me and I have added him to my ignore list.
reasons why I do nott like him were perfectly described by
Xelious. No constructive discussions, no logic, no reason, no nothing.
Only idiotic bible quotes and fights for the right uses of words.
He doesn't want to understand anything, or ven take a look at anything tht is not to his liking. I could exceed and exceed this, but then I would have to write a whole essay, for which I have no time or WILL.

"Those are my views, if you want to discuss them or provide counter-beliefs please do, that's why I'm here"
[hope you didn't have any copyright for these lines;)]

1. Just wondering what your veiw of religion is. Who is God, what does He do, is there a heaven, hell, etc.....
2. This is a religion forum right?? Is Tony1 bashing a new religion or did I miss something??


Since I asked you to spill your guts, here is my answer.
God is everything and everywhere. No one created Him, He created everything. There is a heaven and hell....live for God and heaven is your reward....and so on.

JesusSaves,

I totally agree with you on your veiw of religion. 1. God is almighty and he is a friend who can help you through tough times when you seek him out. He's everywhere and. Yea there is a heaven and hell........same things you had said

Spunks,
Welcome to sciforums :)

Religions are relics from mythology and have no relevance to modern society.

In broad terms mythology is composed of traditional stories about gods, kings, and heroes. Myths often tell about the creation of the world (and about its destruction as well), about the creation of men, and, also, they provide lessons on a moral code by which to live. They were attempts to provide rationale to natural events and to human emotion. Mythological stories generally were passed on orally from generation to succeeding generation. Each tale, embellished and "corrupted" through the re-tellings, was probably a reasoned explanation of the facts as seen by unsophisticated and uneducated eyes.

Cris

but some_guy01 has nailed the main reason

a primative way of keeping people under control

All the way back to the feudal system and probably to cave- people, it has been about control. It may have been born as a unifying force, but mainly it is used as a tool to keep the lower classes in line. Consider the most damning statement from the acursed book itself:

"the meek shall inherit the Earth"

What a nice piece of bourgeois propaganda. Tell them that being poor is a virtue and they will release their money into your willing hands. Collection plates and tithes are just a redistribution of wealth from the poor to the rich.

"The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles."-Karl Marx

Marx hit the issue right on the head.

I now believe Religion is merely a way of controlling the masses.
But dont confuse Religion and God, they are two seperate issues.

Maybe a God of sorts exists,...but i believe we have used this belief via religion and fear, to create an easy way of keeping the population in line.

Just my opion
RazZ:cool:

*Originally posted by Teg
Tell them that being poor is a virtue and they will release their money into your willing hands.*

The virtue of being poor only exists in your religion.

In Christianity, wealth is good thing...

Wealth and riches shall be in his house: and his righteousness endureth for ever.
(Psalms 112:3, KJV).

But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.
(Deuteronomy 8:18, KJV).

Mind you I can see why you are against the religion you built inside your own head.
Who'd want to be poor like atheists?
That's why I'm a Christian, among other reasons.

*Originally posted by razz
But dont confuse Religion and God, they are two seperate issues. *

I hope Teg sees that.
His religion has God cursing people with poverty.
Who would want that?
Teg's religion really sucks.

I asked what YOUR religion was, not what you thought about other people's religions. Please either answer the original ? or get out of the way.
Thanks:)
-JS

I got to the age of fourteen and the whole thing just stopped making sense for me.
I feel that there is not enough evidence to allow me to believe.
This is my personal view on religion.
I think that everyone has the right to evaluate and choose their beliefs themselves.
The only time when this is not the case, in my opinion, is when beliefs hurt people.

Tony cannot, or will not do either JesusSaves. He is here to condemn all other beliefs but his. He has not stopped doing so for any other person so I doubt he will for you, even in just one thread. Simple requsts like this seems too much for him I suppose.

Actually esp, that could be a very good description of my life and beliefs so far. I was a "server" or alter boy for about 4 years a while back. I stopped because I realized I didn't believe anything they were teaching in the church, it was a nice story with nice morals, but nothing more to me.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Xelios
...I was a "server" or alter boy for about 4 years a while back. I stopped because I realized I didn't believe anything they were teaching in the church, it was a nice story with nice morals, but nothing more to me.

Sorry to go slightly of the thread, but i would like to know what you have learned outside of your experience?

Love

Jan Ardena.

As to what that something is, I'm unsure.

I have had some wonderful things happen in my life, and some not so wonderful.

Through it all, I kept my chin up and let the "forces that be" guide me, and help me make the right decisons.

Call that God, Call that Faith, I call the the power of positive thinking.

"All things are possible only believe."

In Christianity, wealth is good thing...

I've seen this. The priests, reverands, and the church staff are all well payed by the paritioners. They need only promise entrance into heaven and the peoples wallets open at an instant. Of course christians can become wealthy, they are indeed the greediest population on this planet. All lower forms of life have a need to compensate for their lackings.

Sorry to go slightly of the thread, but i would like to know what you have learned outside of your experience?
About what? Religion or life? I'm not sure what you're asking about. :(

Originally posted by Xelios
About what? Religion or life? I'm not sure what you're asking about. :( [/B]

What do you believe?

Love

Jan Ardena.

Religion is just the same as any cult. Christianity was made to control people. For example:
Quote from the bible:
Leviticus 27:
A man between the ages of twenty and sixty is valued at fifty pieces of silver; a woman of that age is valued at thirty pieces of silver. A boy between five and twenty is valued at twenty pieces of silver; a girl of that age is valued at ten pieces of silver. A boy between the ages of one month and five years is valued at five pieces of silver; a girl of that age is valued at three pieces of silver. A man older than sixty is valued at fifteen pieces of silver; a woman older than sixty is valued at ten pieces of silver. If you desire to make such a vow but cannot afford to pay the prescribed amount, go to the priest and he will evaluate your ability to pay. You will then pay the amount decided by the priest.There's also a contradiction in the first paragraph of Genesis. See if you can find it. I can't get through the bible without laughing.

I explained what I believe relgion is in a previous post.

I believe we are here because if we weren't we wouldn't be asking that question. We are nothing special and yet we continue to insist we are. There are literally quintillions of other stars in the universe, and yet we keep asserting that we are important in the big scheme of things. As I stated before, nothing in the universe would change if the entire human race died out tomorrow.

I believe that if there is a god or a highly advanced being, we are not able to communicate with him in our day to day lives, and he did not create the universe especially for us. To me, religion is humanities last effort to make themselves look important, when in fact we are but a speck in an immense universe. It's like picking a grain off of a beach and trying to prove it is somehow more important than the rest. Once all of humanity realizes we are not important at all religion will fall away and we will unlock our full potential to grow and eventually master space itself.

That's what I believe.

*Originally posted by JesusSaves
I asked what YOUR religion was, not what you thought about other people's religions. Please either answer the original ? or get out of the way.*

"In Christianity, wealth is good thing...

Wealth and riches shall be in his house: and his righteousness endureth for ever.
(Psalms 112:3, KJV).

But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.
(Deuteronomy 8:18, KJV).
...
That's why I'm a Christian, among other reasons. "
-tony1 01-01-02 11:11 AM

How about reading the answers, or get out of the way.

*Originally posted by Teg
The priests, reverands, and the church staff are all well payed by the paritioners. They need only promise entrance into heaven and the peoples wallets open at an instant. Of course christians can become wealthy, they are indeed the greediest population on this planet. All lower forms of life have a need to compensate for their lackings.*

You can't decide what you want to complain about can you?
Too poor, too rich, too poor, too rich, too poor, too rich.

Besides, you can be a "higher" starving form of life if you want to.

That's why I'm a Christian, among other reasons. "

So you're just in it for the money? Hate to break it to you, but what religion you are has nothing to do with how much moolah you have. It depends on how hard you work to get it.
Sorry Dude:(
-JS

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Xelios
As I stated before, nothing in the universe would change if the entire human race died out tomorrow.

Errrrr.... somehow, i don't thinks so, but you are entitled to your beleif.

I believe that if there is a god or a highly advanced being, we are not able to communicate with him in our day to day lives, and he did not create the universe especially for us.


Why don't you try and find out more about this advanced being. It is obvious you beleive in God as does everybody who posts on this forum. What you have to work out is 'who is He,' 'what is He,' and 'where is He.' There is no point in denying Him.

To me, religion is humanities last effort to make themselves look important, when in fact we are but a speck in an immense universe.

Religion isn't man made. Religion is put in place by God so that man can find is way in this dark world. Man has since manipulated religion for his own selfish ends. The new religions are 'new age,' 'atheism,' 'satanism' and idol worship. All those come under one banner 'demoniac.' These are demoniac times. It will only be a matter of time before you 'have' to worship some entity who will call himself god.

It's like picking a grain off of a beach and trying to prove it is somehow more important than the rest. Once all of humanity realizes we are not important at all religion will fall away and we will unlock our full potential to grow and eventually master space itself.

Religion will never fall away, man cannot undo what has been done by God, it will, however, become more degraded. This degridation is important and is natural, this is why even though people claim to be atheist, they are obsessed with God, this is no accident.
There are 3 basic energies, material, spiritual and marginal. The material energy is what we are now experiencing in the form of heat/cold, happy/sad, pain/bliss, etc. The spiritual is eternal, full of knowledge and bliss, and not a part of this world but only through an external body. Marginal is our position, the living (human) beings. We have a material body, and we reside in that body as the soul. The soul is a part of God, the body belongs to material nature. We can either turn to the material side or turn to the spiritual, it is up to us, but the soul remains eternal. Thats why God gave religion, so that if we should wish to stop this merry-go-round we call life, then we have a way out.
If, however we don't, then we become controlled by nature.

By vedic calculation, the material world is in its final stage of anihilation, it is said that there are approximately 428,000 years left, and during that time everything will become more and more degraded. This change is a part of nature, like winter is, this is the winter of our discontent. Atheism, godlessness, and other forms of low (animalistic) consciousness will run rampant in these times, because that is what is needed for anihilation.
Try and understand God if you can.
You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
It is the greatest of all sciences.
The philosophy is second to none.
God is truly the greatest. You cannot realise until you realise.

Are we still on for that challenge?

Love

Jan Ardena.

Errrrr.... somehow, i don't thinks so, but you are entitled to your beleif.
I doubt Alpha Centari will suddenly go nova if we died out tomorrow. Even our star and the other planets in our solar system wouldn't be affected. The only thing in this universe that would be affected by us dying out is Earth.
Why don't you try and find out more about this advanced being. It is obvious you beleive in God as does everybody who posts on this forum. What you have to work out is 'who is He,' 'what is He,' and 'where is He.' There is no point in denying Him.
You see, I do not believe in God. There is a clear difference between a being who is our God and a being who simply looks like a God. I believe if this advanced being exists, he did not create the universe just so we could live in it, we are simply a byproduct of its creation.

There is a very valid point in denying him. There is no evidence, proof or observation to suggest he exists. So why are we even trying to make it look like he does? We do we need a God so badly that we are deluding ourselves into thinking He actually exists? I doubt I will ever understand that.
Religion isn't man made.
I beg to differ. God himself is a product of religion, and so He could not have suggested it in the first place. Even before God first appeared or spoke to any human (besides Adam and Eve of course) there were undoubtably still religions in the world.
All those come under one banner 'demoniac.'
Oh I see, anything that doesn't conform to Christianity is demonic?
it is said that there are approximately 428,000 years left, and during that time everything will become more and more degraded.
So you are saying there are only 428,000 years left in the Universe's life? I'm sorry, but that is not the case. Even our own sun will greatly outlast that time.
Atheism, godlessness, and other forms of low (animalistic) consciousness will run rampant in these times
Woah there, hold on a minute. Animalistic? What in the world makes you think that?! If anything it is a higher way of thinking than religion is. Instead of attributing everything to God, science (which seems to be synonymous with athiesm if I follow you correctly) is attempting to explain how this universe came into being and how it works. How can you say that is an animalistic consciousness?
It is the greatest of all sciences.
Religion is not a science. If it were, it the theory of it would have been discarded long, long ago due to lack of evidence to support it.
Are we still on for that challenge?
Sure :)

If I may offer some opposing viewpoints ...


Religion isn't man made. Religion is put in place by God so that man can find is way in this dark world. Man has since manipulated religion for his own selfish ends. The new religions are 'new age,' 'atheism,' 'satanism' and idol worship. All those come under one banner 'demoniac.' These are demoniac times. It will only be a matter of time before you 'have' to worship some entity who will call himself god.

If religion was put in place by God, then it was to enslave all to his yolk and perpetuate the darkness in the world. Some men seized the opportunity the subvert whatever principles existed and twist them to their own meaning and then apply those contorted stories against their fellow men. Men saw what God had given them--namely, a means of how to control vast multitudes of people with fear and domination and doublespeak about love and sacrifice. Religion has inspired evil opportunists (tony1 comes to mind) to capitalize on the doubts and low self-esteem of others and drive them towards the rest of the herd mentality. To think differently means that people are somehow blaspheming God, that God is such a universal terrorist that one need forgo any sort of loving for the creature and, instead, engender constant fear and loathing. You say that it will only be a matter of time before you have to worship some entity who calls himself God. Any preacher or prophet comes to mind readily. Your local pastor already sets himself up in his calling to lead others to Christ, supposedly, when in fact it is just to increase the membership in his corner of the world. If there is a God, then you have been duped by him, oh predictable Jan.


... this is why even though people claim to be atheist, they are obsessed with God, this is no accident.

So plants that reproduce asexually should be considered abnormal because they are obsessed with sex? Jan, can I take it that you're obsessed with God? Yes / No? Wouldn't it, according to your beliefs as a Christian, be otherwise great if atheists were obsessed with God then? That way they'd somehow be continually thinking about him, right? So, if that reasons out, then it would follow to also allow that Christians are obsessed with the judgment and, hence, the evil that will befall the unbelievers. Thus, while atheists, according to your understanding, are obsessing about God, you guys are obsessing about the cruel things that will happen to those that don't believe in God. So, if your God exists, we'll still be saved and you'll be denied the chance to see us all roast in hell. Pretty nifty, eh?


Try and understand God if you can.

Because not even his followers have any clear idea about him. Hell, take tony1 for instance. The most he can do is declare what he isn't about. Then again, perhaps that's tony1's way of actually following what his God is all about--duplicity.


You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Unless you consider your intellect worthless, and you're short of reasons why you should hate your fellow man, embrace God!


It is the greatest of all sciences.

You know, the kinds of <i>sciences</i> that prove themselves just by calling themselves a science. Hence, any belief system instantly becomes a dogmatic science.


The philosophy is second to none.

Actually, you're right Jan. Nirvana, which is another word for a sense of nothingness; a plane of existence where everything is nil--hey death! Yessiree, second to nirvana. Pretty far second, though.


God is truly the greatest. You cannot realise until you realise.

Those are some words of wisdom right there, man. You cannot realize until you realize. Wow. Deep.


... it is said that there are approximately 428,000 years left ...

Is that all? By Jiminy, I better get cracking on this repentance thing, then.

Thanks!

prag

Just my two cents about religion. Some peoples religion may be
worth two cents. Like someone on this forum said: religion and God
is two different issues. But for lack of a better word, they can relate
to each other. The meaning of words religion or religious has changed
over the years. I don't want to get to deep in this, so I will try to
keep it brief. There is a godly religion, that is holy and pure.
and there is man made religion that is not holy or pure.
You can be in a stained glass window prison. You can go to church
every day of your life and still go to hell. You can belong to every
denomination there is and still be lost. denominations and church's
can keep you from knowing God. I'm not saying that the people are
bad , it's the system that thay are in. Jesus never said go join a
denomination. I'm not saying every church is bad but it's hard to
find a good one. The early church worshiped in houses and under
trees and in caves, where ever they could. I've seen people make
church, their god, a denomination, their god. Even Jesus had conflicts
with the religious leaders of His day and nothing has changed, if he
was here in the flesh today He would still have the same conflicts
that He had then. Not everybody that calls himself a Christian is one.
Just like counterfeit money, there is counterfeit churches and
many counterfeit preachers. Because you have your collar on
backwards and a cross around your neck doesn't make you holy.

Jam 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is
this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to
keep himself unspotted from the world.

Jam 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth
not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion
is vain.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no
man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Lovin' all your answers!! This is the 1st thread I ever started that actually went somewhere:rolleyes:
Keep 'em comin'
-JS

p.s. Bdmart I agree totally

*Originally posted by JesusSaves
So you're just in it for the money?*

Nope, just following Jesus' recommendation.

I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
(Revelation 3:18, KJV).

*Hate to break it to you, but what religion you are has nothing to do with how much moolah you have. It depends on how hard you work to get it.*

I've heard rumors among unbelievers that there is a connection between the amount of money one has, and the amount of work one does.
From what I can gather, the connection is inverse to what non-believers think.

*Originally posted by Jan Ardena
By vedic calculation, the material world is in its final stage of anihilation, it is said that there are approximately 428,000 years left, and during that time everything will become more and more degraded.*

That pretty much proves that the vedas are crap.
Even scientists can see that we'd be up to the moon in garbage in 428,000 years.

*Originally posted by Xelios
There is a very valid point in denying him. There is no evidence, proof or observation to suggest he exists. So why are we even trying to make it look like he does? We do we need a God so badly that we are deluding ourselves into thinking He actually exists? I doubt I will ever understand that.*

Understanding things isn't your strong point.

In a lottery, there is very little evidence indicating that a particular ticket is the winner, just one number.
Listening to atheists talk about God is like all the losers in a lottery standing around the winner attempting to convince him he didn't win.
Every loser can bring their ticket and prove, by weight of evidence yet, that lottery tickets do not win.
Every mathematical and statistical analysis of all tickets will demonstrate that the possibility of winning is so infinitesimal that it is hardly worth arguing the point.
It is a very stupid winner indeed who would listen to such losers.

*Originally posted by pragmathen
tony1 comes to mind*

Aw shucks, a backhanded compliment.

*Originally posted by bdmart
You can go to church every day of your life and still go to hell.*

I can't see how you would avoid hell, since it is the grave, unless Jesus returns before you die.

*Jesus never said go join a denomination.*

He actually said to beware of denominations.

Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
(Matthew 16:12, KJV).

Sounds like a Christian Cult orphan left estranged after Jim Bakers conviction. :) I bet you watch the 800 club don't you Tony? If you weren't already thought to be totally uncredible...that money talk really nails the coffin.
Suppose we should break out the petroleum jelly so we can "see" like Tony. ROFLMAO

So let me get ths straight Tony...is it a pyramid scheame or more of a down-line? You give the church 10% as a favor to God and He gives you ...what was that return on the investment....is it the going interest rate? And if you bring other demon possesed people in and they believe you and start giving 10% do you get an additional percentage for anyone who joins under you?

You make the words of God foolishness and salvation laughable. You are with out any shame aren't you?

*Originally posted by Taken
Sounds like a Christian Cult orphan left estranged after Jim Bakers conviction. I bet you watch the 800 club don't you Tony? If you weren't already thought to be totally uncredible...that money talk really nails the coffin.
Suppose we should break out the petroleum jelly so we can "see" like Tony. ROFLMAO*

Laughing at your own jokes?
Isn't that a little uncool?

*So let me get ths straight Tony...is it a pyramid scheame or more of a down-line? You give the church 10% as a favor to God and He gives you ...what was that return on the investment....is it the going interest rate? And if you bring other demon possesed people in and they believe you and start giving 10% do you get an additional percentage for anyone who joins under you?

You make the words of God foolishness and salvation laughable. You are with out any shame aren't you? *

Will you be laughing as hard when God's provision dries up as you are laughing at it now?

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
(Galatians 6:7, KJV).

There is a reason that mockery of God is tied to sowing and reaping, and that reason is people like you.
You sow scorn at God's provision, you will reap a harvest of scorn.
I've been pointing out the "Be not deceived" part to you for some time, now you've moved to the mocking part.
It won't be long before you get to the reaping part.

BTW, when your husband starts to wonder why your lives are as though they were cursed, you can tell him it was your doing, and on purpose, too.

Tony ALL good things are from God. I thank Him greatly for ALL that I have. But your assertion that wealth is evidence of being right with God, or that people should serve God for monetary gain is absurd and you know it. Tithing is not a FAVOR we do for God as an expectance of a nice return on our investment at high interest rates.
The fact is there ARE a lot of poor people who ARE right with God. What of the old woman who only had pennies to put in the offering plate? And there are a lot of rich people serving evil and man...Jim Baker for instance.

In a lottery, there is very little evidence indicating that a particular ticket is the winner, just one number.
Listening to atheists talk about God is like all the losers in a lottery standing around the winner attempting to convince him he didn't win.
Every loser can bring their ticket and prove, by weight of evidence yet, that lottery tickets do not win.
Every mathematical and statistical analysis of all tickets will demonstrate that the possibility of winning is so infinitesimal that it is hardly worth arguing the point.
It is a very stupid winner indeed who would listen to such losers.
That's an idiotic analogy. It has nothing to do religion or what we're talking about.

*Originally posted by Taken
But your assertion that wealth is evidence of being right with God, or that people should serve God for monetary gain is absurd and you know it.*

Of course, you are probably quite well aware that I didn't assert that either; you just made it up.

*Tithing is not a FAVOR we do for God as an expectance of a nice return on our investment at high interest rates.*

You can believe and have no expectation of anything if you want.
You will just get what you expect to get.
I, on the other hand, believe AND expect to get what I believe.

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
(Hebrews 11:6, KJV).

I'll take the reward because I'm not holier than God.
You can try to be holier than God, and reject his blessing if you want to.

*Originally posted by Xelios
That's an idiotic analogy. It has nothing to do religion or what we're talking about.*

That's the equivalent of walking up to the holder of the winning lottery ticket, and saying that winning the lottery is idiotic, and that the winning number has nothing to do with anything.

Your problem is that I am holding the winning ticket.

You do realize that Jesus warned against the love of money......
It's not wrong to have it, its just wrong to make such a stinking big deal out of it.
-JS

That's fine for you Tony1, Enjoy your winnings!:)

There are those who havn't bought a ticket
You'll probably find that there are not many people out there who are bothered about not winning.
And in the vein of your analogy, what are the chances of winning the lottery?

*Originally posted by JesusSaves
It's not wrong to have it, its just wrong to make such a stinking big deal out of it.*

So, why are you adding to the stink, then?

Where this "money" thing started from was me saying that God blesses people.
Taken got pissed off and ever since then she has been ranting against every post containing a verse touching on God's blessing.

Wealth and riches shall be in his house: and his righteousness endureth for ever.
(Psalms 112:3, KJV).

The blessing of the LORD, it maketh rich, and he addeth no sorrow with it.
(Proverbs 10:22, KJV).

I hope you aren't planning to denigrate God's blessing, too?

*Originally posted by esp
That's fine for you Tony1, Enjoy your winnings! *

Thanks, I will.

*There are those who havn't bought a ticket *

The ticket is free and is a winning ticket already.

*You'll probably find that there are not many people out there who are bothered about not winning.*

I have noticed that.

*And in the vein of your analogy, what are the chances of winning the lottery?*

For the winning ticket, 100%.
For all the losers, 0%.

The ticket is free and is a winning ticket already.

what are the chances of winning the lottery?

For the winning ticket, 100%.
For all the losers, 0%.

With your own lottery analogy though, that doesn't work.
By definition, a lottery can not be a certainty.

Just my thoughts.

*Originally posted by esp
With your own lottery analogy though, that doesn't work.
By definition, a lottery can not be a certainty.*

Ah, but you are assuming that the draw is in the future.
It isn't, it is in the past.

Perhaps a more accurate analogy would be, (if I understand you correctly), a lottery where you can only buy a specific set of numbers, so everyone who buys a ticket has to have the same numbers.
Wouldn't that rather dilute the winnings?
Maybe I'll wait unitl the next draw!

I wonder, what would make man forget that he is in fact created? What line of reasoning has man come to that makes him forget that yes, God is?

Man would prefer to believe that he is evloved from animals. That by nature, he is only one step above the animal kingdom.

no god, only nature and life
[ok and maybe a little alien genetic experiment, but nth more];)

*Originally posted by esp
Perhaps a more accurate analogy would be, (if I understand you correctly), a lottery where you can only buy a specific set of numbers, so everyone who buys a ticket has to have the same numbers.
Wouldn't that rather dilute the winnings?*

At least you're getting the idea.
But no.
The winners all have to have the same number, as in any lottery.
The winning number is 1.
Any other number can appear on any losing ticket, as in any lottery.

The winnings aren't diluted because the winnings are infinite.
Eternal life, and eternal blessing.
Can't dilute that.

*Originally posted by dkb218
That by nature, he is only one step above the animal kingdom.*

Oh no, the evos think that man is in the animal kingdom.
Thus, man didn't evolve from the animals, but is just another branch in the evolutionary "tree."