MADRID, Spain (CNN) -- At least 173 people were killed and nearly 600 injured in a series of explosions on Madrid's railway network at the height of morning rush hour, interior ministry officials told news agencies.

Spanish officials are blaming the Basque separatist group ETA for the coordinated attack, which comes ahead of Sunday's general election.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39875000/jpg/_39875958_train_close_ap.jpg

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39875000/jpg/_39875500_station_tv.jpg

Three separate trains were hit by near-simultaneous explosions before 8 a.m. (2 a.m. ET) along the southern part of Madrid's train network at Santa Eugenia, El Pozo and Atocha stations, officials said.

The most deadly blast happened on a train entering Madrid's main Atocha station, according to Interior Minister Angel Acebes.

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/interactive/world/0403/gallery.spain.train/gal.spain.4.ap.jpg

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/interactive/world/0403/gallery.spain.train/gal.spain.3.reut.jpg

Survivors described scenes of chaos and panic in the Spanish capital.

"The worst was people screaming for help inside the train and there was nothing we could do," one survivor told CNN+.

People in tears walked away from the city's main Atocha station in droves as rescue workers carried bodies away from the scene.

Many people with bloodied faces sat on curbs, using mobile phones to tell loved ones they were alive. (More eyewitness)

http://edition.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/02/08/spain.guernica/top.eta.graphic.jpg

Time for the 'civilized' world to stand up against this terrorism!

You are such a despicable idiot - a mindless parasite who enthusiasticly laps up and regurgitates every manner of misery and misfortune in an effort to sell your own brand of absurdity.

Spanish officials are blaming the Basque separatist group ETA ...
In fact, they are far less certain of this at this time.

Wouldn't if be something if it turned out to be the act of BARBARIC ISLAMIC TERRORISM instead of BARBARIC CHRISTIAN TERRORISM ?

TIME FOR THE 'CIVILIZED' WORLD TO STAND UP AGAINST THIS BARBARIC CHRISTIAN TERRORISM !
Please educate yourself before making inflammatory statements like these. You clearly have no idea what's going on there.

FORTY YEARS OF ETA. (Basque Homeland and Liberty) (http://www.findarticles.com/m1373/4_49/54396911/p1/article.jhtml) (History Today, April 1999, John Sullivan)

"The Basque's are one of Europe's oldest ethnic groups. They speak a distinct language, Euskera, and have fought for independence since as far back as Roman times. ETA, whose name in the Basque language means ?Basque Homeland and Freedom', first emerged as a student resistance movement fundamentally opposed to General Francisco Franco's repressive military regime. During Franco's dictatorship the Basque language was banned, the distinctive Basque culture suppressed, and Basque activists and intellectuals imprisoned and tortured for their political and cultural beliefs."
- FPA Guides: Terrorism - the Basque ETA (http://www.fpa.org/newsletter_info2478/newsletter_info_sub_list.htm?section=The%20Basque% 20ETA%204%2F10%2F01)

And you should think twice before pointing fingers:

"Germany and Spain are the European countries in which the September 11 hijackers received most support, and some fear there may be "sleeper cells" of terrorists in these countries. Spanish police were monitoring about 200 Arab migrants suspected of working with 20 Islamic terrorist cells. Spain's Muslim population increased from about 30,000 in 1985 to 500,000 in 2000."
- Australia immigration: EU on terrorism (http://www.migrationint.com.au/news/hobart/jan_2002-08mn.asp)

Terrorist motives all exhibit one overriding theme, and that is injustice. Terrorists emerge from and identify with a large group of people whom they perceive to be unfairly repressed. The repressive political authority is known and hated. Whether Northern Ireland's IRA, the Basque ETA, Kashmiri Harakat-ul-Mujahidin, Sri Lanka's Liberation Tigers of Tamal Eelam, the Lebanese Hezbollah, Palestinian Hamas and Islamic Jihad, Algerian Armed Islamic Group, or exiled Saudi Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda, all these terrorist organizations proclaim to represent a group not getting its due. And their due is usually portrayed as an independent political system organized according to a desired ideology. They all proclaim to suffer under the heel of an alien, corrupt, or illegitimate power.
- CDI Terrorism Project: Motives (http://www.cdi.org/terrorism/motives.cfm)

There should be no place for injustice in the world - not in Christianity or anywhere else.

I agree with your assesment of this dunce, atheist. I think this idiots fanatacism really is getting out of order, all he does is blow his horn about Islam, and its so called brilliance and slam other cultues and beliefs. I have tried to engage him in discussion, but all he seems intent on doing is spreading this propoganda here.

I honestly do not see how he is contributing to this community, other than irritating us, and disrespecting our views and culture, and spreading prejudice. I elect to the administrator, that Proud Muslim is banned from here.

I elect to the administrator, that Proud Muslim is banned from here.

Crazymickey - I elect to let the fool stay on Sciforums - Proud Muslim is a shining example of Islam - and a constant reminder to us all how barbaric and offensive muslims can be.

I know many muslims who have same views and attitudes as Proud Muslim, he is not unique in this Islamic behaviour.

While i agree proud muslims post is complete BS, and an overreaction since it doesnt look like an ETA attack and looks more like an islamic attack, and the government isnt sure its an ETA attack they just jumped to that conclusion because they needed to blame someone and they are easiest to blame. I am not sure about Vienna's post, it implies all muslims are like the thread starter when they arent, a small group are, and that small group extends to any muslim terror attacks, however many muslims accept a small group are making the rest of them look bad, like any terror attacks made by christians make all christians look bad when they arnt. I ask the thread starter to get their facts right before posting such BS and making themselves look bad, and everyone else to accept there are idiots like this out there making their religion look bad, when will people learn religion is not a reason to hate someone or attack them?
PS. Proud muslim im not sure ETA are entirely religiously motivated, they want an independant state in the north of spain and any attacks draw attention to that. Its barbaric terrorism, but please dont bring religious motivation into it.

Wouldn't if be something if it turned out to be the act of BARBARIC ISLAMIC TERRORISM instead of BARBARIC CHRISTIAN TERRORISM ?

ENJOY !!!

Mr Aznar did not mention Eta by name but his interior minister, Angel Acebes, said there was no doubt the separatist group was responsible.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3502218.stm

hypocrite !!!

In the end we can just blame the arabs

Having settled in southern France, the Visigoths invaded Spain around 415 and tried to conquer the Basques. During the next two or three centuries they launched twenty campaigns against them. The Visigoth Empire in Spain came to an end in 711 with the Moorish invasion. About that time the Basques were Christianized, possibly by Christians fleeing from the Moors, and later became ultra-Catholic. Muslims from the south and Christians from France crossed their territory as the wars between them swung back and forth.

The arabs made them christians...how ironic.

Ok i was kinda on your side a lil before proud muslim but just shut the fuck up, NOBODY said terrorism was exclusively islamic, read the damn thread, and stop bringing religion into it, terrorism isnt exclusively a religious act, and it has not been proved ETA had anything to do with the bombings, read your own post Angel Acebes SAID there was no doubt... wheres the EVIDENCE??? He is a government official looking for someone to blame, i think you should be banned from this forum before you make all muslims look bad when your in the minority of them. NOW BUGGER OFF.
Sorry everyone else for the rant and bad language but he's pissed me off now.
PS. ETA usually give warnings before attacks and claim responsibility afterwards as they want to attract attention to their cause, this has not happened as yet.

Your hypocrisy EXPOSED !! you want to make terrorism exclusivly Islamic !!! you hypocrites !!
Good lord. You seriously think that the world sees terrorism as existing only in the Islamic realm? Terrorism has always existed PM, be it Christian, Islamic, Hindu, Atheist. You seem so gleeful that a Christian group may have committed this atrocity, and you try to use it as a weapon to try and make a stupid point. You should be ashamed of yourself PM. I don't expect much from you but in a small way I actually expected better from you. You are disgusting.

I am not sure about Vienna's post, it implies all muslims are like the thread starter when they arent
I live in a highly populated muslim area of England (Nothing new here, most of English cities are populated with large Islamic ghettos), and the muslims here are from the Middle East and Pakistan. They are the most arrogant and ignorant breed of people I have ever come across, and Proud Muslim is a shining example of the type of muslims I have to put up with every day. Maybe the muslims in the area where you live haven't taken hold of those districts, but just you wait till they do - then you'll wake up!

TIME FOR THE 'CIVILIZED' WORLD TO STAND UP AGAINST THIS BARBARIC CHRISTIAN TERRORISM !
Only a muslim could say this... LOL :D

Good lord. You seriously think that the world sees terrorism as existing only in the Islamic realm? Terrorism has always existed PM, be it Christian, Islamic, Hindu, Atheist. You seem so gleeful that a Christian group may have committed this atrocity, and you try to use it as a weapon to try and make a stupid point. You should be ashamed of yourself PM. I don't expect much from you but in a small way I actually expected better from you. You are disgusting.

Your hypocrisy is EXPOSED !! you wont say the same crap to someone who post the same thread regarding so called islamic terrorism !!! you are bunch of HYPOCRITES !!!

For once I vaguely agree with PM, just a little. How interesting.

How about this concept: All Terrorism is Wrong.

Now, go back to your respective ethnic/religious groups and try to stop it.

PM, you are clearly elated by this bombing. If Christians blew up buildings all around the world tomorrow, killing tens of thousands, I sense that the joy might overwhelm you. Here's a hint. Any time your philosophy drives you to the point where terrorist acts of any kind are viewed as a good thing (either for your cause or the point you are trying to make), you've lost a piece of your fucking humanity.

I hate terrorism, unless it proves my point - that's the definition of hypocrisy.

Josh

It's just a ride. - Bill Hicks

JamesR, shouldn't this thread be moved to world events?

Thanks.

Naw, I say closed, for being pointless, except for a desire to stir up trouble.

Spanish Interior Ministry officials said Thursday they are investigating the new angle in the deadly series of Madrid blasts after the discovery of a van containing eight detonators and an Arabic tape with Koranic teachings

..............................!

Aye, well, whatever. I am putting it on hold for now, until they've got more information about who, using what, and why.
Its the only thing to do just now, otherwise you end up lashing out stupidly.
And I second "justaride"

Al-Qaeda has claimed responsibility for this attack.

I think a few people owe some apologies here.

Crazymickey - I elect to let the fool stay on Sciforums - Proud Muslim is a shining example of Islam - and a constant reminder to us all how barbaric and offensive muslims can be.

I know many muslims who have same views and attitudes as Proud Muslim, he is not unique in this Islamic behaviour.


ya bad bad only vienna is allow to call muslim terrorist. ya :D

Al-Qaeda has claimed responsibility for this attack.

I think a few people owe some apologies here.


Oh please stop being so Sick. :mad:

Al-Qaeda has claimed responsibility for this attack.

I think a few people owe some apologies here.


ya al-qeda took the responsiblity of flying cows too.... and it is so true. :D

cows? i thought al-qaeda did it to pigs?

and everything al-qaeda says, the people believe. lol. they call it a terrorist group, but believe anything it says.

could it get any more sense less?



DUBAI (Reuters) - A letter purporting to come from Osama bin Laden (news - web sites)'s al Qaeda network claimed responsibility for train bombings in Spain on Thursday, calling them strikes against "crusaders," a London-based Arabic newspaper said.


Reuters Photo



The Spanish government has said Basque separatists were the main suspect in the bombings of four trains early on Thursday that killed 190 people. /[B]


But the country's interior minister held open the possibility of a militant Islamist link on Thursday evening when he told a newspaper conference that a suspect van had been found containing detonators and an[b] Arabic-language tape. He said, however, militant Basque separatists remained chief suspects.


The London-based al-Quds al-Arabi newspaper faxed to Reuters' Dubai bureau a copy of a letter purporting to come from the "Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigades." The group aligns itself to al Qaeda, blamed by Washington for September 2001 attacks on the United States.


"We have succeeded in infiltrating the heart of crusader Europe and struck one of the bases of the crusader alliance," said the letter which called the attacks "Operation Death Trains."


There was no way of authenticating the letter.


So funny these terrorists carry Arabic video tapes all over the place with them and their passwports and pictures of sadam and osama with them.........before they attack they also carry their arabic passports and photos and leave behind all the proves of arabic language magzines etc etc.................lol what a pathetic joke.

This thread should be moved to World Events.

So funny these terrorists carry Arabic video tapes all over the place with them and their passwports and pictures of sadam and osama with them.........before they attack they also carry their arabic passports and photos and leave behind all the proves of arabic language magzines etc etc.................lol what a pathetic joke.

what pictures of who do they carry with them? I’ve never heard of any terrorist found to have a picture of Saddam Hussein on his person... cause, you know, Islamic extremists hated Saddam about as much as America... what with the fact that he was a CIA employee, and installed a repressive anti-Islamic extremist regime in Iraq.

Your hypocrisy EXPOSED !! you want to make terrorism exclusivly Islamic !!! you hypocrites !!
Broadly speaking, there are two possibilities. Either you accurately represent Islam, or you disgrace it. Keep that in mind as you make yourself look increasingly vulgar and stupid.

This is disgusting that you'd use the deaths of people simply to say 'my religon is better'.

And no, this isn't hypocrisy. People have been saying the same exact things about the abuse of 9/11.

From USATODAY.com


Arab newspaper receives Spain bombing claim on behalf of al-Qaeda
CAIRO (AP) — An Arabic newspaper said Thursday it had received a claim of responsibility for the Madrid train bombings issued in the name of al-Qaeda. The claim also said that a major attack against America was "90% ready."

The five-page e-mail claim, signed by the shadowy Brigade of Abu Hafs al-Masri, was received at Al-Quds al-Arabi's London offices. It said the brigade's "death squad" had penetrated "one of the pillars of the crusade alliance, Spain," and carried out what it called Operation Death Trains. "This is part of settling old accounts with Spain, the crusader, and America's ally in its war against Islam," the claim said.

Referring to Spain's Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar, the statement asked: "Aznar, where is America? Who will protect you, Britain, Japan, Italy and others from us?"

The newspaper faxed the claim to The Associated Press office in Cairo.

The statement warned the United States that a major strike is approaching.

"We announce the good news for the Muslims in the world that the strike of the black wind of death, the expected strike against America, is now at its final stage — 90% ready — and it is coming soon, by God's will," the claim said.

Asked about the claim of responsibility, White House spokesman Sean McCormack said "we've seen the news reports and we're going to determine what the facts are."

There was no way to verify the claim came from al-Qaeda, though the editor of Al-Quds al-Arabi, Abdel Bari Atwan, said the phrasing sounded like the terrorist group.

The message also referred to last year's attack on Italian paramilitary police serving in the U.S.-led coalition in Iraq.

"When we attacked the Italian troops in Nasiriyah and sent you and America's agents an ultimatum to withdraw from the anti-Islam alliance, you did not understand the message. Now we have made it clear and hope that this time you will understand," the statement said.

"We, at the Abu Hafs brigades, have not felt sad for the so-called civilians," the statement in an apparent reference to the hundreds of casualties in Thursday's attacks in Madrid.

"Is it OK for you to kill our children, women, old people and youth in Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine and Kashmir? And is it forbidden to us to kill yours?" the claim asked.

The statement said another al-Qaeda squad, Jund al-Quds or Soldiers of Jerusalem, had carried out Tuesday night's attack on a Masonic lodge in Istanbul, Turkey.

"All the Masons would have been killed but there was a technical fault. So because God wished it, only three were killed," the statement said.

In the attack, two suicide bombers opened fire in the lodge's dining hall, killing a waiter and wounding five other people. The attackers then detonated rudimentary explosives. One assailant died in the blast while the other was severely wounded.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Al-Qaeda has claimed responsibility for this attack.

I think a few people owe some apologies here.

I agree.

Al-Qaeda 'behind Madrid blasts' (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,8945071%255E601,00.html)

March 12, 2004

A GROUP linked to Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda terror network has claimed responsibility for yesterday's bombs in Spain that killed more than 190 and injured 1400.

The group, calling itself The Brigade of Abu Hafs Al-Masri, said it was acting in the name of al-Qaeda.

Your hypocrisy is EXPOSED !! you wont say the same crap to someone who post the same thread regarding so called islamic terrorism !!! you are bunch of HYPOCRITES !!!
Excuse me?

It is your hypocrisy that is exposed PM, not mine. There have been several occasions that I've said the same thing to people who've started threads calling all Muslims terrorists. You just choose to have a selective and short memory in your attempt to try to make a point. Most people with half a brain are aware that people who commit terrorist act under a religious banner do not represent that religious organisation. I'm sure that you're going to say that this is payback against those people who start such threads in regards to 'so called Islamic terrorism', but do not forget that it is YOU who started this thread, which makes you just as bad as those other people who've started threads about Islamic terrorism.

but do not forget that it is YOU who started this thread, which makes you just as bad as those other people who've started threads about Islamic terrorism.
Proud Moron is well known for chasing his own tail. And he complains that it is the moving tail that makes him to run in circles. And blames that all other people are 'hypocrites' not agreeing with him on this obvious truth.

For once I vaguely agree with PM, just a little. How interesting.

Thanks Angelus.

How about this concept: All Terrorism is Wrong.

Of course all terrorism is wrong and BARBARIC.

PM, you are clearly elated by this bombing. If Christians blew up buildings all around the world tomorrow, killing tens of thousands, I sense that the joy might overwhelm you.

This is outrageous claim, do you know that my best friend was badly hurt in yesterday bombings ??? :mad:

So Please, dont give me this BULLSHIT...it is very disgusting.

Al-Qaeda has claimed responsibility for this attack.

I think a few people owe some apologies here.

Let us see what AMERICAN TERRORISTS EXPERTS said about this HOAX letter supposedly from Al qaeda:
''..But intelligence sources have consistently told CNN that Abu Hafs al-Masri does not speak for al Qaeda, and there is a question about whether it exists at all beyond one person with a computer and a fax machine ''

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/03/11/spain.blasts/index.html

''A group saying it speaks for al Qaeda has claimed responsibility for the Madrid train bombings in an e-mail to an Arabic-language newspaper in London.
However, intelligence officials have said the group does not speak for al Qaeda and has been unreliablein the past.''

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/03/12/spain.blasts.alqaeda/index.html

ENJOY !

ya al-qeda took the responsiblity of flying cows too.... and it is so true. :D

Al Qaeda took responsibilty for the death of George W Bush's own pet as well !!! :D

More regarding the HOAX letter claiming Alqaeda responsibilty:

''..But BBC Washington correspondent Justin Webb says US intelligence regards the al-Masri Brigades as lacking in credibility.

The same group claimed responsibility for the huge power failures in New York and Canada last year, failures which turned out to have nothing to do with terrorism.

US intelligence officials also say it is not al-Qaeda's habit to claim responsibility so early...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3501364.stm

Of course all terrorism is wrong and BARBARIC.



This is outrageous claim, do you know that my best friend was badly hurt in yesterday bombings ??? :mad:

So Please, dont give me this BULLSHIT...it is very disgusting.

PM, you clearly started this thread with an agenda. Before even half of the facts were in, you couldn't wait to use this event as springboard to ignite passions and divide. The dust had not even settled, the bodies had not even been counted, and you were licking your chops to post divisive horseshit like this:

Your hypocrisy EXPOSED !! you want to make terrorism exclusivly Islamic !!! you hypocrites !!

The civilized response to terrorism is to simply condemn it - not to exploit it for political or religious reasons. Terrorism is terrorism, whether it happens to Palestinians, Israelis, Americans, or Spaniards. Case closed.

If you wanted to make a point about double standards in terrorism, why not post a thread comparing unfair terrorism coverage with fair terrorism coverage, explaining why you believe this disparity exists and what we can do to remedy it? Why not simply post this story and allow readers a chance to reflect? No, instead you saw this as a chance to advance an agenda, a chance to throw around invectives, and a chance to cry hypocrite at others. You couldn't even wait until a thorough investigation began, much less finished. That is not a compassionate first response and you know it.

Good people see an act of terror, as horrible as it may be, as a chance to come together, to work together, to see how petty our differences really are.

Please refrain from using tragedies like these to further divide people.

Josh

It's just a ride. - Bill Hicks

Is there a non banning policy here or something? Seeing as if there is anyone at this board, who should be banned, and has done everything that should warrant a ban, I think that's PM.

I am serious about this. He's not at this forum to participate, he's here to spread propoganda. I've never seen him join any other discussions, all I've seen him do here, is blow his horn about Islam, and put down everything else. And even when we try to engage him in discussion about his own Islam, all he does is, like bird-brain, moan about the hypocrites and liers here or even better, post hate material against Christianity or Hinduism. You should realise, groups that exhibit the same behaviours PM does, in society, like KKK, are segregated from socieity.

PM agenda here is nothing short of terrorism, Islamic terrorism, you may call it. So rather than entertaining terrorism, do what is prudent, rid of the terrorism. PM here is for nothing else. We have nothing to lose, and some peace to gain, by ridding of him.

i also want to ad that PM is an absolute idiot. Im guessing the place he got his news from would be VERY biased, in reality, it is unknown who did this act, one group that has claimed responsibility is Alquieada (spelt wrong)
crazymikey has a point;
shut up before you start Christian bashing PM

PM agenda here is nothing short of terrorism, Islamic terrorism, you may call it.
PM is a pathetically ignorant fool who seems intent on demonstrating the depth and breadth of that ignorance. Such demonstrations, however, do not equate to terrorism.

PM, you clearly started this thread with an agenda. Before even half of the facts were in, you couldn't wait to use this event as springboard to ignite passions and divide. The dust had not even settled, the bodies had not even been counted, and you were licking your chops to post divisive horseshit like this:

I dont have an agenda, my post was noraml reaction to the carnage took place in Spain...this is normal human behaviour.

The civilized response to terrorism is to simply condemn it - not to exploit it for political or religious reasons. Terrorism is terrorism, whether it happens to Palestinians, Israelis, Americans, or Spaniards. Case closed.

Indeed, but ever wondered why not a single person here condemned it, but instead, some were suggesting to move the thread, some suggested to close it, and some even suggested banning me all together !!!!

I am still waiting to hear a word of condemnation against this sheer act of CHRISTIAN TERRORISM !!!! :mad:

If you wanted to make a point about double standards in terrorism, why not post a thread comparing unfair terrorism coverage with fair terrorism coverage, explaining why you believe this disparity exists and what we can do to remedy it? Why not simply post this story and allow readers a chance to reflect? No, instead you saw this as a chance to advance an agenda, a chance to throw around invectives, and a chance to cry hypocrite at others. You couldn't even wait until a thorough investigation began, much less finished. That is not a compassionate first response and you know it.

Well, maybe you have a point here, but you know, this thread ( I posted the same in many other forums ) has shaken people's image of terrorism, people like you realized that terrorism is blind, is not exclusivly ISLAMIC...this is maybe good thing to come out from this tragedy, the realization that terrorism has no religion, no nationality, no borders.

Good people see an act of terror, as horrible as it may be, as a chance to come together, to work together, to see how petty our differences really are.

I agree, but if you look at the reaction here, you wont find this, instead, some pathetic animals tried to blame ISLAM and Alqaeda for it ( I hate alqaeda and everything they stand for ) but instead of coming together, they started attacking me personally, perhaps, I hit them on very sensitive nerve that wake them up to face their double standards and hypocrisy.

Please refrain from using tragedies like these to further divide people.

I am not, I hope you will direct these words to the ISLAMOPHOBES here, I would really appreciate it so much.

Thanks.

Proud Muslim

I am still waiting to hear a word of condemnation against this sheer act of CHRISTIAN TERRORISM !!!!

What are you talking about? cristians arent even involved on that terrorist act,(see news!) please dont act like a fanatic since you are giving a bad name to your religion.

Well, maybe you have a point here, but you know, this thread ( I posted the same in many other forums ) has shaken people's image of terrorism, people like you realized that terrorism is blind, is not exclusivly ISLAMIC...this is maybe good thing to come out from this tragedy, the realization that terrorism has no religion, no nationality, no borders.

You say this, but just above that statement you come out with this:
I am still waiting to hear a word of condemnation against this sheer act of CHRISTIAN TERRORISM !!!! :mad:
Only a twit without a brain would see terrorism as being connected with religion. You say that this thread was a normal human reaction to a terrorist act? Yet your sole reaction has been to point the finger at Christians for committing a terrorist act. You are no better than the dickheads and rednecks who point the finger at Islam for terrorist acts. Remember this statement that you made in the opening of this thread? Here's a reminder:
TIME FOR THE 'CIVILIZED' WORLD TO STAND UP AGAINST THIS BARBARIC CHRISTIAN TERRORISM !
The normal human reaction to any terrorist act is to call the perpetrators animals. Only the minority look to the religious background of the terrorists and label the whole for the actions of the few. It appears as though you are in the minority.

Oh and another point PM, NOTHING good ever comes out of terrorism. Only death, pain and destruction.

I dont have an agenda, my post was noraml reaction to the carnage took place in Spain...this is normal human behaviour.
You demonstrate nothing even approaching "normal human behaviour".

As for the rest, to paraphrase Johnny Cochran: if the Koran's in the van, your post is a sham.

Proud Muslim

I am still waiting to hear a word of condemnation against this sheer act of CHRISTIAN TERRORISM !!!!

What are you talking about? cristians arent even involved on that terrorist act,(see news!) please dont act like a fanatic since you are giving a bad name to your religion.

I have seen the news, it was ETA, I have spoken with my friends and relatives in Spain, and it was ETA, so please, dont make fool of yourself here.

You demonstrate nothing even approaching "normal human behaviour".

As for the rest, to paraphrase Johnny Cochran: if the Koran's in the van, your post is a sham.

I have no time to waste with hopeless athiests, but my friends in Spain told me that this van was stolen from MUSLIM MAN and was used by ETA.

Beside, how clever to leave the van WITH a commercially available Quran tapes containing no threats to divert attention !! after all, those who did it are not that dumb like you to leave tapes and detonators in the van !!! :rolleyes:

ODDLY ENOUGH, NONE OF THE HYPOCRITES HERE CHALLENGED WHAT I POSTED ABOUT THE HOAX LETTER SUPPOSEDLY FROM AL QAEDA !!

''..But intelligence sources have consistently told CNN that Abu Hafs al-Masri does not speak for al Qaeda, and there is a question about whether it exists at all beyond one person with a computer and a fax machine ''

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/03/11/spain.blasts/index.html

''A group saying it speaks for al Qaeda has claimed responsibility for the Madrid train bombings in an e-mail to an Arabic-language newspaper in London.
However, intelligence officials have said the group does not speak for al Qaeda and has been unreliable in the past.''

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/03/12/spain.blasts.alqaeda/index.html

''..But BBC Washington correspondent Justin Webb says US intelligence regards the al-Masri Brigades as lacking in credibility.

The same group claimed responsibility for the huge power failures in New York and Canada last year, failures which turned out to have nothing to do with terrorism.

US intelligence officials also say it is not al-Qaeda's habit to claim responsibility so early...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3501364.stm

:rolleyes:

I have no time to waste with hopeless athiests, ...Feel free to leave.

Nah, I wont.....you can leave.

http://www.islamonline.net/english/news/2004-03/12/images/pic02c.jpg

Please spare some thoughts for the dead, dont turn it into debate about hopelessness and athiesm !!

This is honestly so hopeless. He's an utter moron, with absolutely no shame. I really recommend we just ignore him. Don't feed the troll.

Maybe the muslims in the area where you live haven't taken hold of those districts, but just you wait till they do - then you'll wake up!
Vienna i've actually met many muslims(i used to live in london and my girlfriend still does and knows many muslims), and people of other religions and backgrounds and i've found the majority to be quite pleasant, no matter what the religion, PM is representing a minority and its shameful how bad he makes the rest of the muslim population look.
PM. I have noticed something you havnt, we have all condemned this terrorist act, but not as christian terrorism as theres a lack of proof as to whos behind it, many people didnt condemn 9/11 as muslim terrorism, they called it Al Queda terrorism, so kindly take your assumptions and accusations elsewhere, condemn the terrorists, not a religion.
Also yes the supposed letter from Al Queda has been dismissed as fake, yet ETA have not claimed responsibility or been proved responsible, all reports are 50/50 as to who is to blame, im sorry to hear you knew someone in the blasts but please dont make the same assumptions as the spanish government and everyone else without proof, ETA are the easiest to blame, its as simple as that and you fell for it.

Please spare some thoughts for the dead, dont turn it into debate about hopelessness and athiesm !!
You have no shame. You started this thread PM gleefully claiming that Christians committed this act. Don't you get it yet? Terrorism ISN'T about religion. It has NO religion.

Terrorism is about fanatical fools who only have an agenda. You claim that a friend of yours was injured in this deplorable act, yet you still come out with this thread? This thread does not even belong in the religious forum, it belongs in the World Events forum because this terrorist act and any other terrorist act has NOTHING to do with religion. Yet for some obscure reason you started it in the religious forum with a title stating "180 dead, 500 injured, Christian terrorism struck Madrid". You pathetic piece of crap! You bitch and moan about others starting stupid threads blaming Muslims for terrorist acts, but you do the same. This attack in Madrid has nothing to do with religion. What it does have some people who have an agenda to kill as many people as possible. You point the finger saying that we are attacking you because you've struck a nerve in attacking Christians. What you fail to realise is that we're attacking you for doing the same as others have done to you. You are a hypocrite of the worse kind. You are treating this as some sort of one upmanship. But you have lowered yourself to the same level as every single Islamaphobe out there. It is YOU who has the double standards and it is YOU who is the hypocrite.

PM is representing a minority and its shameful how bad he makes the rest of the muslim population look.

If shaming and exposing someone's hypocrisy is making muslims look bad, then so be it... :rolleyes:

PM. I have noticed something you havnt, we have all condemned this terrorist act, but not as christian terrorism as theres a lack of proof as to whos behind it, many people didnt condemn 9/11 as muslim terrorism, they called it Al Queda terrorism, so kindly take your assumptions and accusations elsewhere, condemn the terrorists, not a religion.

What I noticed from debating 'western' HYPOCRITES is that when jew or christian committs a crime or an act of terror, he goes on trial, but when muslim committs an act of terror, it is ISLAM which goes on trial.

This thread turns the tables on the heads of the HYPOCRITES, already some of them starting retracting their previous BS about Islam and religion and now they are saying terrorism is terrorism no matter what religion is. this is great development in the psyche of these hypocrites, you see, I am treating them from their disease, called HYPOCRISY.

Also yes the supposed letter from Al Queda has been dismissed as fake, yet ETA have not claimed responsibility or been proved responsible, all reports are 50/50 as to who is to blame, im sorry to hear you knew someone in the blasts but please dont make the same assumptions as the spanish government and everyone else without proof, ETA are the easiest to blame, its as simple as that and you fell for it.

It was the case when 9/11 happened, minutes after the attacks ISLAM as a whole was blamed, until now, no one is sure who did 9/11 but yet, the HYPOCRITE westerners blamed Alqaeda and so called islamic terrorists !!

You see the double standards here !!! :rolleyes:

It was the case when 9/11 happened, minutes after the attacks ISLAM as a whole was blamed, until now, no one is sure who did 9/11 but yet, the HYPOCRITE westerners blamed Alqaeda and so called islamic terrorists !!

Oh my God! The WORLD (of ALL creeds and religions) blamed Al Qaeda because it was they who committed the 9/11 attacks. Not Muslims, not Islam, but a group of people led by a disgusting pig of a mad man. No one gives a shit which religion the terrorist belong to. What people do give a shit about is that some idiot is leading a group of stupid people to commit these acts. Religion means nothing in these events.

Technically, the terrorists of 9/11 religion does matter, as they are only adhering to what it preaches, and it is these preachings that are hammered into them from the moment they "enrol" into a Madrassa.

However, as no other popular religions actually preaches hatred, and intolerance, to this extent - we could say, it's exclusively, an Islamic problem.

Proud Muslim, here are a few facts you might want to be reminded of (or not).


* massive casualties - no warning, time of strike during commuter hours

* separate, coordinated explosions (transpost used to deliver terrorist bombing: New York - plane. Istanbul - car. Madrid - train.)

* stolen van found near Madrid with al qaeda tape and versus of Koran in it

* date of Madrid bombing Marth 11th. The 2 1/2 year aniversary of Sept 11th attack.

* political timing - attack comes days away from spanish general election (in which spanish support of US policy in iraq and troop presence was surely an issue)

* message to Al Qud's newspaper in London from a purported al qaeda source claiming responsibility for attacks.

* number of days between New York attack September 11 to the day of the Madrid bombings March 11th: 911

* like turkey, spain is the site of a former Islamic caliphate. in Islam, once a territory has been islamic it can never be given up. Islamists, such as yourself, view Spain and Turkey as decandent apostates, crusaders in a Muslim land.

make of these facts, some of them creepy, what you will.



an early guess from me is this may be a case where ETA and al qaeda collaborated. Al qaeda the brains, ETA the explosives.

Also, we should not be surprised if the Spanish government wants to play up the ETA terror angle over the al qaeda terror connection, at least in the short term - it's a vote winner.

This is getting stupid. Wheres the mod?
I refer you all to my earlier post about holding back. Otherwise, PM has been well enough answered my everyone else.

I dont have an agenda, my post was noraml reaction to the carnage took place in Spain...this is normal human behaviour.



Indeed, but ever wondered why not a single person here condemned it, but instead, some were suggesting to move the thread, some suggested to close it, and some even suggested banning me all together !!!!

Many posters on this thread have condemned this action.

People do not want to ban you for your opinions. They want to ban you for the tasteless, puerile style in which you exhibit those opinions. Post something with substance and not just loaded, controversial headlines. Maybe that might help.


I am still waiting to hear a word of condemnation against this sheer act of CHRISTIAN TERRORISM !!!! :mad:

No. You're waiting for a fight.



Well, maybe you have a point here, but you know, this thread ( I posted the same in many other forums ) has shaken people's image of terrorism, people like you realized that terrorism is blind, is not exclusivly ISLAMIC...this is maybe good thing to come out from this tragedy, the realization that terrorism has no religion, no nationality, no borders.

Fine. Make your point in some other fashion, preferably not one that exploits recent tragedies.

By the way, the next time Al-Qaeda strikes, I expect to see you post a similar headline as well (e.g., Fundamentalist Islamic Terrorists Strike Kills 100 - let the civilized world unite against these BARBARIC acts of ISLAMIC terror!) Let's see how committed you are to this "fairness" premise.

9/11 happened over two years ago. The Madrid bombing happened earlier this week.

Isn't it fascinating how you're so certain who bombed Madrid, but still so wishy-washy about 9/11? Face it. You're just as quick to deny Islamic terror as you are to seize upon any non-Islamic terror.




I agree, but if you look at the reaction here, you wont find this, instead, some pathetic animals tried to blame ISLAM and Alqaeda for it ( I hate alqaeda and everything they stand for ) but instead of coming together, they started attacking me personally, perhaps, I hit them on very sensitive nerve that wake them up to face their double standards and hypocrisy.

The point is, you could not even wait for the news to report the facts before you spewed out your headline: 180 Dead, 500 injured, Christian Terrorism struck Madrid! This is not even established yet, so why post it, if not to ignite passions?

I'm going to venture a wild guess and say that the reason this post did not receive a series of calm, respectful replies is because you tagged it with a bold-faced, red exclamation that you knew would incite polarizing gut reactions in those who read it. You did not post it with the intent to educate; you posted to inflame.

Again, if you want to make a point about hypocrisy, post a well-researched expose, where every line does not end with an exclamation, and maybe you will receive a more civil response. This can be done, provocatively even, without exploiting the death of others.



I am not, I hope you will direct these words to the ISLAMOPHOBES here, I would really appreciate it so much.

Thanks.

I have no doubt "Islamaphobes" exist, as well as "Hinduphobes" and "Agnostophobes," but the way to reach them is not by posting painfully fresh pictures of tragedy, prematurely attributing them to any religious group, and confirming the worst Islamic stereotypes by making every statement the equivalent of an internet shout (e.g., your hypocrisy EXPOSED !!!!!) and drowning out all dissenting voices. That is, unless you simply want to drive the wedge between cultures deeper.

Some people derive highs from sparking controversy (I'm not immune to this myself; reactions can be quite educational), but one must be careful not to slide from provocative into, let's say, tasteless, opportunistic exploitation.

And generally speaking, anything that proceeds six exclamation marks is not a piece of well-thought-out, rational discourse.

Just my thoughts.

Josh

It's just a ride. - Bill Hicks

Technically, the terrorists of 9/11 religion does matter, as they are only adhering to what it preaches, and it is these preachings that are hammered into them from the moment they "enrol" into a Madrassa.

However, as no other popular religions actually preaches hatred, and intolerance, to this extent - we could say, it's exclusively, an Islamic problem.

Crazymikey, islam does not preach hatred, no religion preaches hatred, though that doesnt mean hatred isnt in many holy books, its just ignored in favour of preaching peace and love. Its not exclusively an Islamic problem, religion is not linked to terrorism, though a few misguided people may use it as an excuse. Al Queda, whilst being mostly made up of muslims do not represent all terrorists, i should think that all religions have at least 1 misguided person who has been a terrorist at some point, proving religion isnt a factor in terrorism, so to say terrorism is exclusively an islamic problem is most definately not true.

It's interesting to note that if you use GMT, exactly 911 days elapsed between the 9/11 attacks and the bombings in Spain. What is it with terrorists and anniversaries?

It's interesting to note that if you use GMT, exactly 911 days elapsed between the 9/11 attacks and the bombings in Spain. What is it with terrorists and anniversaries?

They're a really sentimental lot, I guess.

Josh

It's just a ride. - Bill Hicks

when i checked the figure I may have counted incorrectly, but i think it's 912 days since Sept 11, and 911 between Sept 11 01 and Mar 11 04.

someone might want to check that.

when i checked the figure I may have counted incorrectly, but i think it's 912 days since Sept 11, and 911 between Sept 11 01 and Mar 11 04.

someone might want to check that.


Well that is how rumors spread, remember the false flight number rumor during 9/11. We have some memebers here who love to spread rumors as soon as they read it some where about it. :rolleyes:

i encourage everyone to check for themselves the number.

it is conceivable the coincidence led the bombers to choose thurday over wednesday or friday before the election.

if al qaeda had a hand in this it would be unusual for the number of days elapsed since 9/11 to be news to them.

Are you still blaming Al Qaeda ??? :rolleyes:
Ok I need to ask. Why should you care if people blame AL Qaeda? They are a terrorist organisation led by a fanatical moron. Why are you so offended if they are blamed? They have claimed responsibility for it but the question as to who committed this horrid act is still unanswered. So seeing that they have claimed responsibility for it, people will blame them. If it turns out to be ETA, I'm sure that the world will be baying for their blood just as the world bays for Bin Laden's blood.

Most educated people know that Al Qaeda do not represent Islam, so why are you so hung up on this issue? You stated you hated them but at the moment you're defending them? What gives?

Crazymikey, islam does not preach hatred, no religion preaches hatred, though that doesnt mean hatred isnt in many holy books, its just ignored in favour of preaching peace and love. so to say terrorism is exclusively an islamic problem is most definately not true.

Read my thread, "The truth about Islam" Islam really does preach hatred, and intolerance, of course, amongst other things. I know of no other major religion, that does the same. Perhaps, you should enlighten me.

I did not say terrorism if an exclusively Islamic problem. I am saying, that, the terrorism of Islamic fundamentalists, is exclusively an Islamic problem.

Crazymikey please go to your local mosque and ask them to preach to you, they will not preach hatred to you, i dont deny there is hatred and intolerance in their holy book, but its not preached to people, theres also a lot of hatred and intolerance in the bible, but it is not preached, if a religion preached hate it would become hated by everyone for causing violence, islam does not cause violence, fundamentalists do, and all religions have those(may i remind you of the crusades against islam since these were caused by christians). I am glad you refined your statement about terrorism being an islamic problem to saying islamic terrorism is an islamic problem, and i ask you to extend that to christian terrorism being a christian problem etc for all other religions, as we must be fair about this.
PM you still fail to grasp there is very little evidence to blame ETA, also theres very little to blame Al Queda, you can blame anyone you like without evidence to back it up, thats exactly what everyone is doing at the moment, blaming whoever they want, whoever it suits them to blame, speculating. PM you could very well be right about it being ETA, but its not been proved either way yet so please hold back any accusations and it would put you one step above the UN security council, wait until the conclusive evidence is found to support/discredit your theory that it was ETA, before it drives me insane and i start claiming it was micky mouse! :)

Isnt sad some memebrs here are busy with numbers and conspiracy BS instead of remebering the dead and the injured ??

I'm sorry, I didn't understand you there for a minute. You're jumping around blaming the ETA and not remembering the dead or injured, you're playing the blame game. And yes, at the moment it looks like Al-Qaida is involved.

Spain Arrests Five in Madrid Bombings (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/3/13/153814.shtml)
Al-Qaida Takes Blame, Says U.S. is Next (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/3/11/164850.shtml)

Proud Ahmed is funny
1 - "it wasn't al qaeda"
2 - "but spain deserved it anyway"

I'm sorry, I didn't understand you there for a minute. You're jumping around blaming the ETA and not remembering the dead or injured, you're playing the blame game. And yes, at the moment it looks like Al-Qaida is involved.

Spain Arrests Five in Madrid Bombings (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/3/13/153814.shtml)
Al-Qaida Takes Blame, Says U.S. is Next (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/3/11/164850.shtml)


Everone is involve, Al-Qeda and ETA. Seems like a combine effort. However I agree with Counsler that forget the blame game pray for the poor souls. By the way who started it? Otheadp I hope it wasn't one of your cunning plots...ha. :cool:

I'm sorry, I didn't understand you there for a minute. You're jumping around blaming the ETA and not remembering the dead or injured, you're playing the blame game. And yes, at the moment it looks like Al-Qaida is involved.

Spain Arrests Five in Madrid Bombings (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/3/13/153814.shtml)
Al-Qaida Takes Blame, Says U.S. is Next (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/3/11/164850.shtml)

Oh yeah, very convinent to blame Al qaeda since it is election year in America and indeed today is ELECTION DAY in Spain itself.

Come on guys, anyone can claim responsibilty, you can film yourself with mask claiming to be from Al qaeda !!

what about the 2 indians arrested ????? :rolleyes:

Most educated people know that Al Qaeda do not represent Islam, so why are you so hung up on this issue? You stated you hated them but at the moment you're defending them? What gives?

I am not defending those terrorists, Al qaeda, they are bunch of assholes, but the point is this: some haters and some jews like othe are using al qaeda to tarnish Islam...typial brainless jew.

I did not say terrorism if an exclusively Islamic problem. I am saying, that, the terrorism of Islamic fundamentalists, is exclusively an Islamic problem.

I disagree, why there have been NO so called Islamic terrorism in 1970s ?? why just now ??

It is NOT exclusively an Islamic problem, it is your problem as well, dont give these killers the oxygen in which they need to survive and recruit more, change your foriegn policies, stop supporting the terrorist state of Israel, get the hell out of Iraq and Afghanistan, address Muslim grievances and injustices.

it is very easy to blame others while forgeting your own evil.

Proud Muslim,

When you say:

"I am not defending those terrorists, Al qaeda, they are bunch of assholes, but the point is this: some haters and some jews like othe are using al qaeda to tarnish Islam...typial brainless jew."

It sounds like you are deeply offended that some people stereotype Islam based on the acts of "al qaeda" and that is understandable.

However, do you not see that when you stereotype christianity based on the acts of "ETA" and when you stereotype jews based on the acts of "othe" - you are behaving in the offensive manner that you claim to hate...?

Please think about it.

I am not defending those terrorists, Al qaeda, they are bunch of assholes, but the point is this: some haters and some jews like othe are using al qaeda to tarnish Islam...typial brainless jew.
PM I've never heard of jews in general using Al Queda to tarnish Islam, maybe you could enlighten me? And i ask you withdraw the brainless jew statement, that is deeply offensive to all jews, im sure you'd be annoyed if someone said brainless muslim.
stop supporting the terrorist state of Israel, get the hell out of Iraq
As far as i was aware nobody is supporting Israel, and also to my knowledge the Palastinians are just as bad as far as terrorism goes. Also many people didnt support the iraq war, its the governments choice what happens, and why should they pull out now they are there? They may have a chance to stop suicide bombers by identifying the leaders and losing some of their own people to try and bring east and west together.
Eddies post was right, you are rightly offended by some bad stereotypes, but are no better because you make the same stereotypical accusations to christians and jews.

if shaming and exposing someone's hypocrisy is making muslims look bad, then so be it...

Yes, shaming yourself and exposing your own pathetic hypocrisy does make muslims look bad, PM. Maybe you should get some dignity. Sheesh.

Meanwhile, the socialist party wins the bombastic election in spain, now that a link with al-quaida seems plausible, the general public is giving Aznar the ,,|,, finger in return for draggin spain into the iraqi invasion while more than 80 percent was against it

Proud_Muslim:
what about the 2 indians arrested ?????


You act like Indians can't be terrorists or muslims...

Arabs and Muslims cannot commit such an act. We therefore condemn the act and hope that the Spanish government will be able to find out the truth.

London Al-Arab al-Alamiyah

Sound familiar?

Meanwhile, the socialist party wins the bombastic election in spain, now that a link with al-quaida seems plausible, the general public is giving Aznar the ,,|,, finger in return for draggin spain into the iraqi invasion while more than 80 percent was against it
Let the appeasement begin!

Let the appeasement begin!

Is that a reference to Sean Hannity's new book?

Is that a reference to Sean Hannity's new book?
He has a new book :confused:

Proud Muslim,

When you say:

"I am not defending those terrorists, Al qaeda, they are bunch of assholes, but the point is this: some haters and some jews like othe are using al qaeda to tarnish Islam...typial brainless jew."

It sounds like you are deeply offended that some people stereotype Islam based on the acts of "al qaeda" and that is understandable.

However, do you not see that when you stereotype christianity based on the acts of "ETA" and when you stereotype jews based on the acts of "othe" - you are behaving in the offensive manner that you claim to hate...?

Please think about it.

I agree with you, I am stereotyping PURPOSELY to show people their double standards and hypocrisy.

those who did the bombings are TERRORISTS, pure and simple, why some want to connect them with Islam ???

For the same reason some people want to connect all westerners, Christianity, non muslims, etc etc, with power mongerers and imperialists. So, now thats sorted, lets all go and have a drink.

It was ETA assholes, the christian TERRORISTS:

Mr Aznar did not mention Eta by name but his interior minister, Angel Acebes, said there was no doubt the separatist group was responsible.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3502218.stm

Your hypocrisy EXPOSED !! you want to make terrorism exclusivly Islamic !!! you hypocrites !!why is terrorism presently linked to Islam?Israel arrests boy 'with bomb' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3515710.stm) The boy was given a bag with a bomb inside, that was meant to explode as he carried it through a military post, Israeli security sources said. .. "They took advantage of the boy's innocence and used him without his knowledge,"

Originally Posted by Proud_Muslim
those who did the bombings are TERRORISTS, pure and simple, why some want to connect them with Islam ???
Islam is certainly not the only sorce of terrorism, kimy kims in NK does a good job of it. However, religon is a great method of getting people to do anything - including blowing themselves up. And Islam seems to be the major religon in countries with no or little legal rights as well as (and maybe as a result) no or little money and hence no or little hope. So yeah, Islam isn't the only sorce of terrorists - however, when you have a large group of poor people willing to do what someone says' God wants them to do - THAT'S a perfect group of people to source terrorists from. And right now, at this point in time, Islamic countries seem to represent that source.

For the same reason some people want to connect all westerners, Christianity, non muslims, etc etc, with power mongerers and imperialists. So, now thats sorted, lets all go and have a drink.

Thanks mate, but since Muslims dont drink Alcohol, May I have some Orange Juice please ! ;)

why is terrorism presently linked to Islam?Israel arrests boy 'with bomb' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3515710.stm)

the same bbc said that shikh Ahmad Yassin issued a fatwa banning the use of childern in suicide operations !!

Are you saying this boy is militant fanatic ?? pathetic ! :D

Islam is certainly not the only sorce of terrorism, kimy kims in NK does a good job of it. However, religon is a great method of getting people to do anything - including blowing themselves up.

Like the HINDUS of the TALMIL TIGERS in Seri Lanka for example, the hindu tamil tigers committed most of the suicide bombings in the 20th century.

And right now, at this point in time, Islamic countries seem to represent that source.

There are 57 MUSLIM COUNTRY, can you please list ALL of them to me and point out the source of terrorism in these countries ! :rolleyes:

the same bbc said that shikh Ahmad Yassin issued a fatwa banning the use of childern in suicide operations !!

Are you saying this boy is militant fanatic ?? pathetic ! :DObviously the boy was tricked by some sick-o jackass

Like the HINDUS of the TALMIL TIGERS in Seri Lanka for example, the hindu tamil tigers committed most of the suicide bombings in the 20th century.Fair enough call - I agree, religion is a powerful motivator to get people to kill themselves for the "cause".

There are 57 MUSLIM COUNTRY, can you please list ALL of them to me and point out the source of terrorism in these countries ! :rolleyes:You have a valid point.
So, of these 57 MUSLIM COUNTRIES, which

1) Have the simple right to, say, free speech? Like what you have in England? The right to tell you're leader he's an ass.
2) How many are ruled by monarchs or dictators and how many are democratic?
3) How many ensure that the women have the same rights as the men?
4) And I really wonder - how many are at peace with their neighbors?

Of the above I wonder how many are Arabic?

I sure hope that terrorist census gets done soon. I really need it. But I guess I'm in the minority. I really don't know how many islamic terrorists there are, where they are, and how much of a threat they are. The premature triumphalists of the right seem sure we've thinned their ranks and got them on the run, and the naysayers of the left seem equally certain that the Iraqi invasion has swelled their ranks and made the world less safe.

I'm eagerly awaiting the data, but in the mean time, both sides will just have to continue to fill the vacuum left by the paucity of actual facts with their preconceived notions. Keep searching out those anecdotes that are "evidence' of that which each of you are already certain.

I'm feeling sour today. Does it show?

:m: Peace.

You have a valid point.
So, of these 57 MUSLIM COUNTRIES, which
1) Have the simple right to, say, free speech? Like what you have in England? The right to tell you're leader he's an ass.

You have to define what is freedom of speech first, for example, in our culture, it is very shameful to tell your leader he is an ass, we respect our leaders if they were good.

There are many Muslim countries which allow freedom of speech such as Indonesia, Malaysia, Turkey, Pakistan, Qatar, Oman, Bahrain, UAE....etc

2) How many are ruled by monarchs or dictators and how many are democratic?

Perhaps you can enlighten us about queen Elisabeth II, was she democratically elected monarch??? :rolleyes:

3) How many ensure that the women have the same rights as the men?

The president of the largest Muslim country in the world is MUSLIM WOMAN, president megawati of Indonesia, I am wondering when, if ever, America will elect its first woman president !!!!!!!!!!!!!

4) And I really wonder - how many are at peace with their neighbors?

I would say the majority.

Of the above I wonder how many are Arabic?

23 out of 57.

Proud Muslim,

"those who did the bombings are TERRORISTS, pure and simple, why some want to connect them with Islam ???"

Why? Because if the terrorists are connected to Osama bin Laden and his gang, then the terrorists are acting out the declared "Islamic" Jihad. Most people understand that this is a fringe group, however, that they are a fringe group of Islam cannot be denied.

Well, can I use your argument in refernce to HITLER, after all , he was christian, did he represent a fringe of christianity???? :rolleyes:

Well, yes... IF Hitler was Christian and had declared a "Christian" holy war then the same argument could have be made about the barbarous acts carried out by his followers... that most people understood his regime was a fringe group but that its link to Christianity could not be denied.

You have to define what is freedom of speech first, for example, in our culture, it is very shameful to tell your leader he is an ass, we respect our leaders if they were good.

There are many Muslim countries which allow freedom of speech such as Indonesia, Malaysia, Turkey, Pakistan, Qatar, Oman, Bahrain, UAE....etcWe'll say the same level of freedom that you'd have constitutionally guaranteed in England (or at the least the level in Indonesia and Turkey). So far it seems to be: 8 you listed with freedom of speech and I assume the other 48 that do not.

Perhaps you can enlighten us about queen Elisabeth II, was she democratically elected monarch??? :rolleyes: nice dodge of the question. OK England sucks arse and the people live in object fear of their tyrannical grandma of a queen.

So again, how many of the 56 Muslim Countries are ruled by Monarchs or Dictators?

I’m guessing 1/2 to 2/3.

The president of the largest Muslim country in the world is MUSLIM WOMAN, president megawati of Indonesia, I am wondering when, if ever, America will elect its first woman president !!!!!!!!!!!!! nice dodge of the question. OK the USA sucks arse and the women only dream of the day they’ll have the rights as their Afgan sisters.

So far it seems to be: 1 you listed with equal freedom for woman and men and 55 that do not.
I would say the majority.So you’re saying what? That 29 or more are at peace with their neighbors and potentially 28 are not. Could you list them?

Well, yes... IF Hitler was Christian and had declared a "Christian" holy war then the same argument could have be made about the barbarous acts carried out by his followers...

What do you mean IF ? Hitler WAS christian, it is a fact.

We'll say the same level of freedom that you'd have constitutionally guaranteed in England (or at the least the level in Indonesia and Turkey). So far it seems to be: 8 you listed with freedom of speech and I assume the other 48 that do not.

You put your western perception of the freedom of speech as standard and Muslims have to follow !! :rolleyes:

Stop this self-rightous western attitude, what is freedom of speech for you might be SLANDER for me and vice versa.

if freedom of speech means to let some scumbags like salamn rushdie tarnish and slander Islam, then to HELL WITH THIS FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

nice dodge of the question. OK England sucks arse and the people live in object fear of their tyrannical grandma of a queen.

So again, how many of the 56 Muslim Countries are ruled by Monarchs or Dictators?

I dont know, you need to list all of them and look at their government.

nice dodge of the question. OK the USA sucks arse and the women only dream of the day they’ll have the rights as their Afgan sisters.
So far it seems to be: 1 you listed with equal freedom for woman and men and 55 that do not.

You see, again trying to generalize, most women in the muslim world enjoys MORE rights than your sexul objects western women, at least we dont rape 8 million muslim women every year and we dont murder 4 muslim women every day as the case in America and to some extent in the UK.

GO FIX YOUR OWN HOUSE FIRST BEFORE YOU WHINE ABOUT MUSLIM WOMEN, dont let me start with your shameful statistics about women ! :rolleyes:

So you’re saying what? That 29 or more are at peace with their neighbors and potentially 28 are not. Could you list them?

I am not saying 28 are at war, this is BS, I was telling you 23 arab countries out of 57 muslim nation.

you list me the MUSLIM states at war with their nighbours, I challenge you, you wont list more than 5 MAXIMUM.

You always turn this around and point the finger at the West. So I am saying. YES the West sucks arse. Now that that’s done, lets see what we have here.

You put your western perception of the freedom of speech as standard and Muslims have to follow !! I didn’t say Muslims had to follow anything. I said, the level of Indonesia or Turkey is fine. How many of the 56 Islamic countries have constitutionally guaranteed levels of freedom of speech at the Indonesian level?

It’s a simple question and on a topic you started. I’d think you’d at least be interested.

You see, again trying to generalize, most women in the muslim world enjoys MORE rights than your bla bla bla So, again, at the constitutional level of Indonesia (your example) how many of the 56 Muslim countries have the constitutionally guaranteed rights for women equal to that of men. I agreed with you, Indonesia makes all of about 1.

So we've established that so far that 1 of 56 Muslim Countries guarantee women the same legal freedom as men.

you list me the MUSLIM states at war with their nighbours, I challenge you, you wont list more than 5 MAXIMUM.So 5 aye? That’s about 1 out of 10.

Well here’s a few hot spots over the last 10 years or so.. . . weird huh??

People’s Republic of China vs the Uighur East Turkestan Independence Movement
Philippines vs. Moro Islamic Liberation Front
Philippines vs. New People’s Army
Philippines vs. Abu Sayyaf
Pakistan vs India
Israeli vs Palestinian
Russia in Chechnya
Indonesia vs East Timorese
Iran vs Iraq
Iran vs. Kurds
Turkey vs. Kurds
Israel vs. Lebanon
Albanians vs. Serbs
Serbs, Croats & Bosnian Muslims
Iraq vs Kuwait
Iraq vs Kurds (in Iraq)
Sudan vs Sudanese People’s Liberation Army
Uganda vs the Lord’s Resistance Army (in Northern Uganda)
Algeria vs. Armed Islamic Group
Kabul government vs the remnant of the Taliban.
Thailand vs southern muslim separatists
Indonesia vs people of Maluccan Islands
Indonesia vs people of Sulawesi Island
Kyrgyzstan vs. Muslim separatists

etcetera

etcetera

etcetera

So again, how many of the 56 Muslim Countries are ruled by Monarchs or Dictators? I'll look for myself . . . . . it seems about 36

I didn’t say Muslims had to follow anything. I said, the level of Indonesia or Turkey is fine. How many of the 56 Islamic countries have constitutionally guaranteed levels of freedom of speech at the Indonesian level?

It’s a simple question and on a topic you started. I’d think you’d at least be interested.

Well, I dont know because I am not an expert in the politics of all these 57 muslim countries, but you have to understand very essential fact: what is freedom of speech for you might be slander for someone else.

[QUOTE=Michael]So 5 aye? That’s about 1 out of 10.

Well here’s a few hot spots over the last 10 years or so.. . . weird huh??

People’s Republic of China vs the Uighur East Turkestan Independence Movement

Are you consdering china a MUSLIM state or the Uighur East Turkestan ( that is not a state ) !!! GIVE ME A BREAK, DONT SOUND LIKE A PROFESSIONAL LIAR... :rolleyes:

Philippines vs. Moro Islamic Liberation Front

Again the Philippines is NOT a Muslim state, your question was about how many MUSLIM STATES are at wars with their neighbours, beside, the Moro Islamic liberation front are fighting for their legitemate rights, after all, why it is ok for CHRISTIAN east timor to be seperated from MUSLIM Indonesia but not ok for the Mindinau Islands to be separated from the Philippes !!! TYPICAL WESTERN HYPOCRISY at work again !

Philippines vs. New People’s Army
Philippines vs. Abu Sayyaf

Again, the Philippines is NOT muslim state.

Pakistan vs India

This is NO.1, let me count:

Israeli vs Palestinian

Thanks for refering to PALESTINE as a state, this is no.2

Russia in Chechnya

Chechnya is not an official state, Russia is certainly not Muslim.

Indonesia vs East Timorese

They are not at war any longer.

Iran vs Iraq

That was in the past, or shall I consider ENGLAND and FRANCE at war !! :rolleyes:

Iran vs. Kurds

LOOOOOOOL, you are really funny, where is the fighting ? where is the war? plus the kurds have no state and they will never have one, we will never allow another terrorist Israel to be established on our land.

Turkey vs. Kurds

The same as the above.

Israel vs. Lebanon

No.3

Albanians vs. Serbs

That was in the past when the CHRISTIAN SERBS slaughterd tens of thousands of Muslims, here is some DISTURBING PICTURES:

WARNING: GRAPHIC PICTURES:

http://www.alkhilafah.info/massacres/bosnia/index.html

Serbs, Croats & Bosnian Muslims

This was civil war, has nothing to do with any muslim country, in fact, the muslims were the MAIN VICTIMS of this bloody war.

Iraq vs Kuwait

That was in the past, are you still living there ??????????

Iraq vs Kurds (in Iraq)

The past.

Sudan vs Sudanese People’s Liberation Army

It is over and peace deal was signed, dig deeper !

Uganda vs the Lord’s Resistance Army (in Northern Uganda)

Uganda is NOT Muslim country, but thank you for pointing at the christian terrorist organization, the lord resistance army!

Algeria vs. Armed Islamic Group

It was civil war, has nothing to do with any neighbours, in fact, the Islamists won the elections in 1992 which upseted the WEST and promote the western-backed corrupt army general to take power which led to this civil war which is about to die down.

Kabul government vs the remnant of the Taliban.

We are still inside Afghanistan, no neighbours involved.

Thailand vs southern muslim separatists

Thailand is NOT Muslim state, the southern Muslims are not fighting the government, there was some riots in the south due to the sheer injustices muslims face in Thailand.

Indonesia vs people of Maluccan Islands

still inside Indonesia, no neighbours involved.

Indonesia vs people of Sulawesi Island

As the above, internal matters.

Kyrgyzstan vs. Muslim separatists

As the above.

etcetera

etcetera

etcetera

Can you please list these etcetera !!!!! :rolleyes:

You see, you are so confused, you first asked about how many Muslim states at war with their neighbours and you went to list internal affairs, the result that we have only 3 muslim countries out of 57 at war with their neighbours, you lost the debate my friend, but nice try though.

So we've established that so far that 1 of 56 Muslim Countries guarantee women the same legal freedom as men.

It is you who established this not me, but nice try !! :D

Well, I dont know because I am not an expert in the politics of all these 57 muslim countries, but you have to understand very essential fact: what is freedom of speech for you might be slander for someone else.How about this one - The right to critize the actions of the ruleing elite. I'd say that's a basic right we could all agree on.

[QUOTE]You see, you are so confused, you first asked about how many Muslim states at war with their neighbours and you went to list internal affairs, the result that we have only 3 muslim countries out of 57 at war with their neighbours, you lost the debate my friend, but nice try though.I said "hot spots" and "last 10 years or so" the reason I differed to this is because many of these countries, Indonesia, Palastine, Iraq, etc.. being classic examples, are not really "states" they're post colonial lines drawn on a map. So for me to list "states" is not representative of the true state of things as they are in the world. Maybe a better question would be how many Muslim "places" are at peace with their own various peoples. Which may be the easier question.

It is you who established this not me, but nice try !! :DThen give me a name of another Muslim country, other than Indonesia, that has the constitutionally guaranteed liberty giving women equal legal rights to men.

I remember you once said, Saudi Arabia is a wonderful place. We both know the pitfully unequal distribution of rights women have in Saudi Arabia. Must I then assume that you must think such discrimination is wonderful?

Anyway, the number, until you info us differently, remains at 1 of 56 constitutionally guarantee equal rights to men and women.

RE: free speech

Well, I just happened across this and I think it serves as an excellent example. From you most beloved Arabia:
Saudi 'arrested' for TV comments (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3521672.stm)

Saudi authorities have jailed a lawyer a day after he criticised the arrest of several top intellectuals in a television interview, sources say.

Pre Menstrual dosn't like freedom of speech. If speech were free, someone could sneak into Mecca, and piss on the Ka'ba while shouting "Islam sucks" at the top of their lungs.

This would obviously be unacceptable.

Abdul Wahid Qasmi
Secretary general of the Finality of the Prophet, a group well known for pursuing blasphemers in Pakistan

• See also: Syed Bilal
• See also: Asghar Ali Afridi

For Dr. Shaikh's own protection, we sought his arrest. Otherwise, he might have been killed in the streets.
-- Abdul Wahid Qasmi, endorsing the capital charges against Dr. Younus Shaikh, who was convicted of blasphemy in Pakistan in August, 2001, for teaching that Mohammed did not practice Islam until after he had received his revelation, quoted from Barry Bearak, "Death to Blasphemers: Islam's Grip on Pakistan," New York Times, May 12, 2001

Even if someone is only half-conscious when speaking against the Prophet, he must die. In Dr. Shaikh's case, his relatives have come to see us, saying the man is sorry and that he repents. But to be sorry now is not enough. Even if a man is sorry, he must die.
-- Abdul Wahid Qasmi, managing to sound amiable in endorsing the capital charges against Dr. Younus Shaikh, who was convicted of blasphemy in Pakistan in August, 2001, for teaching that Mohammed did not practice Islam until after he had received his revelation, quoted from Barry Bearak, "Death to Blasphemers: Islam's Grip on Pakistan," New York Times, May 12, 2001

http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/scarstartframe.htm

As bad as Torquemada and the Inquisition.

Oh yes, to all apologists for Islam; I'm sure these quotes are mis-translated, or somehow out of context. Yeah, right.

What do you mean IF ? Hitler WAS christian, it is a fact.

Well, then... if he was AND his actions and that of his followers was to carry out what he declared to be a "Christian" holy war against non-Christians, then you could use my argument.

You put your western perception of the freedom of speech as standard and Muslims have to follow !! :rolleyes:

Stop this self-rightous western attitude, what is freedom of speech for you might be SLANDER for me and vice versa.

Proud Muslim,

People can be sued in civil court for slander in the west but they are not put to death for having a mind and voice of their own. What do you think should happen to someone who commits what you consider to be slander?

if freedom of speech means to let some scumbags like salamn rushdie tarnish and slander Islam, then to HELL WITH THIS FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

How do you define slander? What constitutes "slander" on the part of "rushdie"...? What do you think should happen to "rushdie"...?

This reminds me of a Diane Sawyer interview with Saddam. When she pointed out that it was unthinkable to westerners that Saddam had people put to death for daring to speak out against him, he naively asked... 'Isn't speaking out against the President of the United States punishable by death?'

Diane Sawyer answered, 'To the contrary. Speaking out against the President of the United States might get you your own T.V. show!'

Saddam was shocked!!! It was unthinkable to him that the President of the United States would tolerate such behavior and allow such a person to live!!!

Worlds apart... worlds apart.

Then give me a name of another Muslim country, other than Indonesia, that has the constitutionally guaranteed liberty giving women equal legal rights to men.

How about Bangladesh which has MUSLIM WOMAN as its prime minister and even the leader of the opposition is also MUSLIM WOMAN ?

How About:

SYRIA.
TUINISIA.
TURKEY.
MOROCOO.
ALGERIA.
EGYPT.
LEBANON.
BAHRIAN.
UAE.
PAKISTAN
PALESTINE
IRAN
LIBYA
MALAYSIA

Want more ??? :rolleyes:

I remember you once said, Saudi Arabia is a wonderful place. We both know the pitfully unequal distribution of rights women have in Saudi Arabia. Must I then assume that you must think such discrimination is wonderful?

Nah, allowing women is be used as sexual objects in the west is more wonderdful, dont you think ????? :rolleyes:

Anyway, the number, until you info us differently, remains at 1 of 56 constitutionally guarantee equal rights to men and women.

You are really funny !!! :D

Proud Muslim,

People can be sued in civil court for slander in the west but they are not put to death for having a mind and voice of their own. What do you think should happen to someone who commits what you consider to be slander?

He should go to jail, remember, the scumbag salman rushdie is still alive !! :rolleyes:

How do you define slander? What constitutes "slander" on the part of "rushdie"...? What do you think should happen to "rushdie"...?

He should be ignored, it was the STUPID MULLAH, KHOMINI with his stupid fatwa that gave this scumbag the air of publicity.

Saddam was shocked!!! It was unthinkable to him that the President of the United States would tolerate such behavior and allow such a person to live!!!

Worlds apart... worlds apart.

You see, you are again try to make your western version of free of speech as standard, I agree with Saddam in this point, it is NOT in our culture to insult the leader of the president, you see, you got to respect our culture, we refuse to imitate you, we refuse to hold your western understanding of free speech as standard which we have to follow.

"we refuse to hold your western understanding of free speech as standard which we have to follow"


But if you arent careful, that leaves partition and segregation as the only sensible outcomes in order to prevent conflict.

I am talking about Muslims living in the Muslim world who refuse to accept your western version and standards and indeed your whole life style;

Bahrain Islamists storm restaurant over alcohol

More than 100 Islamists have invaded a restaurant in Bahrain and threatened diners with knives, say witnesses.
The youths stormed La Terrasse restaurant near the capital, Manama, on Wednesday night because it was serving alcohol, the owner said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3525198.stm

There are values that transcend culture. These are reliably used as a yardstick to objectively measure cultures relative to one another.

People all over the world should have the right to ingest any chemical they choose. They should be free to criticize their leaders, and their religions leaders.
They should be able to say that their religion, or any religion, makes no sense.
They should be able to practice any religion they choose, or no religion at all.

These concepts are hardly unique to the west, and virtually all western governments fall short. The U.S. more than many others.

I consider these ideals worth striving for. Even dieing for

PM, you seem to feel that you have the right to be your brothers keeper, that your way is the only way, and to criticize it is to be condemned. This is typical of all dogmatic belief systems.

From Websters:
Main Entry: dog·ma
Pronunciation: 'dog-m&, 'däg-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural dogmas also dog·ma·ta /-m&-t&/
Etymology: Latin dogmat-, dogma, from Greek, from dokein to seem -- more at DECENT
1 a : something held as an established opinion; especially : a definite authoritative tenet b : a code of such tenets <pedagogical dogma> c : a point of view or tenet put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds
2 : a doctrine or body of doctrines concerning faith or morals formally stated and authoritatively proclaimed by a church


I know there is no reasoning with you. You no longer think for yourself, and you are evidently incapable of reason. All of your opinions come from an ancient book of superstitious nonsense, very possibly inspired by mental illness.

But we will not allow you and your kind to extinguish the faltering flame of reason and freedom the way the Vandals did centuries ago.

But we will not allow you and your kind to extinguish the faltering flame of reason and freedom the way the Vandals did centuries ago.

And what do you mean by WE ?? on behlaf of who you are speaking ?? :rolleyes:

Since you are from the Civilized west, let us read about reason and freedom here:

German man wants state-paid sex

A German court has rejected a claim from an unemployed man who wanted the state to provide him with pornographic material and free visits to a brothel.
The 35-year-old man took his local authority to court after the foreign ministry refused to pay an airfare for his Thai wife to travel to Germany.

He argued that they should compensate him for his lack of sex.

But the court in the southern town of Ansbach said such activities should be paid out of his welfare benefits.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3537071.stm

This is what societies VOID of ethics and true religion can become, animalistic hedonistic and barbarous.

I am talking about Muslims living in the Muslim world who refuse to accept your western version and standards and indeed your whole life style;

Oh good, you'll understand why France has banned headscarves then.

He should go to jail, remember, the scumbag salman rushdie is still alive !! :rolleyes:

Why do you think he should go to jail? What crime did he commit?

You see, you are again try to make your western version of free of speech as standard,

You say that I am "again" trying to make my western version of free speech a standard? When did I ever do that?

I agree with Saddam in this point, it is NOT in our culture to insult the leader of the president,

You agree with Saddam about what? What I was talking about was expressing a different opinion. Differences of opinion can be expressed in a respectful manner. Surely, you don't agree with Saddam that a person should be put to death for expressing an opinion that is different from his?

you see, you got to respect our culture, we refuse to imitate you, we refuse to hold your western understanding of free speech as standard which we have to follow.

I respect all differences in cultures even though I might disagree with some practices. However, Saddam's mad practices were not part of a culture as far as I know. They were born of his egomania and resulted in torturous deaths and unspeakable emotional pain for hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi citizens and their loved ones.

we refuse to imitate you, we refuse to hold your western understanding of free speech as standard which we have to follow.

I am talking about Muslims living in the Muslim world who refuse to accept your western version and standards and indeed your whole life style

And here you have explained exactly why muslims will not integrate with western society. If you do not want to accept the western way of life and its standards then either don't come here, or in your case - leave.

Vienna: "muslims will not integrate with western society"
:rolleyes: They've been integrating just fine for centuries, just as well as most everyone else. You're just like all those other people who project faults on entire groups.

Vienna: "muslims will not integrate with western society"
:rolleyes: They've been integrating just fine for centuries, just as well as most everyone else. You're just like all those other people who project faults on entire groups.

Really....

No smoke without fire so the saying goes - and Islam has created much of both in the world recently

But Judaism created Christianity created Islam so it's all your fault anyway.

But Judaism created Christianity created Islam so it's all your fault anyway.

Christianity followed Judiasm yes, but it was a lowlife who created Islam.

Christianity followed Judiasm yes, but it was a lowlife who created Islam.

Jesus, Moses, Abraham and David all the biblical prophets created Islam! Were they a low life? :rolleyes:

Why do you think he should go to jail? What crime did he commit?

He committed a slander-

You say that I am "again" trying to make my western version of free speech a standard? When did I ever do that?

From the way you are trying to portray the issue of 'freedom of speech'.

Surely, you don't agree with Saddam that a person should be put to death for expressing an opinion that is different from his?

Of course not, but you have to understand that in our culture, slandering other people is to some degree tolerable, but slandering Islam is very very serious and might lead to death.

I respect all differences in cultures even though I might disagree with some practices. However, Saddam's mad practices were not part of a culture as far as I know. They were born of his egomania and resulted in torturous deaths and unspeakable emotional pain for hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi citizens and their loved ones.

I agree with you, Saddam was tyrannt killer, I am glad he has gone FOREVER.

Oh good, you'll understand why France has banned headscarves then.

You know, I think Muslims states have to treat the French the same way they treat Muslims:

From now on, any French girl who visit any muslim land should BY FORCE wear the headscarf !! how about that ????? :rolleyes:

As The french taking the hijab ( headscarf ) by force, the french girls will wear it by force as well........FAIR PLAY. :cool:

And every muslim who visits the west should be forced to drink alcohol? do you see what im getting at?

No you see that wrong. The westeners just have to take example of the muslims ;)

And isn't it time PM speaks out against the horrific islamic act of terror in Madrid?

he is entitled to speak only against 'christian terrorists' and asking him to speak out against islamic terror amounts to denying 'freedom of speech', you infidel.!

And every muslim who visits the west should be forced to drink alcohol? do you see what im getting at?

And every westerner who visit any muslim country should be CIRCUMCISED, do you see what I am getting at ???

No you see that wrong. The westeners just have to take example of the muslims ;)

And isn't it time PM speaks out against the horrific islamic act of terror in Madrid?

No, I wont, I am sick and tired from your double standard and hypocrisy, once you condemn YOUR OWN BARBARIC TERRORISM, you can ask for the same.