Original Reuters story:
AN ANTONIO, Texas (Reuters) - Three people died and 14 were hurt on Monday when a sport utility vehicle crammed with 21 people, most of them suspected illegal immigrants, crashed in Texas after a high-speed chase, police said.

The chase at speeds of 100 miles mph (161 kph) crossed two counties around San Antonio, 135 miles north of the Mexican border, before the vehicle blew a tire and flipped, police said.

Of the 21 occupants, only four, including the driver, were unhurt.

The driver was arrested at the scene and will be charged with capital murder, which carries a possible death penalty under Texas law, San Antonio Police Sgt. Gabe Trevino said.

U.S. immigration officials were helping police identify the driver and his passengers, most of whom lacked documents, officers said. Most were believed to be from Mexico.

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0945757520070709?feedType=RSS&rpc=22&sp=true

sandy's version:

Police chased an SUV full of criminal aliens across two TX counties before it crashed and killed/injured 17. The SUV was jammed full of 21 crimimal aliens from Mexico. 3 died and 14 were injured.

The chase at speeds of 100 miles mph crossed two counties around San Antonio, 135 miles north of the Mexican border, before the vehicle blew a tire and flipped.

The driver was arrested at the scene and will be charged with capital murder, which carries the death penalty under Texas law.

sandy's comment:

Police are overworked and fed up with this bs. We hear stories like this every day here on the West coast. :(

That's terrible. SUV's should all have electronic roll-over protection systems. :mad:

And we hear from the peanut gallery and the compassionate liberal.

GET OFF MY THREAD. :mad:

YOU HAVE COME BACK HERE HURLING PERSONAL ATTACKS AND INSULTS AGAINST ME. IT WILL *NOT* BE TOLERATED.

MOST OF YOUR PERSONAL-ATTACKING GROUP OF THUG FRIENDS HAS GONE OFF TO THEIR OWN PERSONAL HATE SITE. WHY DON'T YOU JOIN THEM? :mad:Too bad you weren't in the vicinity of the crash Der sandy. You coulda killed some MEXICANS!! Racist.


Moderator's note:
Genji has recieved an infraction for this comment.

I'm almost ready to go home!! Yaaaay! Long day. I want some beer and Mexican food.

Moderator's note:
This post deserves another infraction for trolling. Please stop it.

i think a charge of murder is well extreme i would say vechicler manslaughter would be more in line with the act

Interesting reactions to the tragic deaths of 3 people. So Christian. So caring.

At least they didn't kill any citizens... I wonder what would have happened then^. Probably nothing however; the liberals would find some way to weasel the Mexicans out of it...

i think a charge of murder is well extreme i would say vechicler manslaughter would be more in line with the act

Actually any death during a felony and the perpetrators of the felony can be charged with murder.

Rob a liquor store for a grand and if grandpa behind the counter keels over from fright and has a heart attack and you are screwed.

The driver was a bit of an ass.

They should have done the 'drop a passenger, drive 20 yards and repeat' method.

That the driver gets caught is too bad, but he risks that when he drives.

Original Reuters story:
http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0945757520070709?feedType=RSS&rpc=22&sp=true
sandy's version:
sandy's comment:

W.T.F??? They ARE criminal aliens. They came here ILLEGALLY. Entering my country ILLEGALLY is a CRIME. Crime=criminal.

What "bigotry"? This was a news story. :(

So now mods are re-writing/changing posts? :confused:

it is not your country it is our country

There's something to be said for legal immigration.

sandy:

Reuters says "most of them suspected illegal immigrants" and "most of whom lacked documents" and "Most were believed to be from Mexico."

You simply made up the fact that ALL of them were "criminal aliens".

Also, the fact that somebody is suspected of a crime does not mean they are guilty. It has not been established that any of these people entered the country illegally, according to the article. So, you're making that up, too.

Finally, it is not YOUR country. You do not own America.

W.T.F??? They ARE criminal aliens. They came here ILLEGALLY. Entering my country ILLEGALLY is a CRIME. Crime=criminal.

What "bigotry"? This was a news story. :(

So now mods are re-writing/changing posts? :confused:

Fact that they are human beings doesn't mean anything to you, right?

What Christianity do you propagate anyway?

You're missing some crucial concepts: sympathy, charity, mercy, love,...

W.T.F??? They ARE criminal aliens. They came here ILLEGALLY. Entering my country ILLEGALLY is a CRIME. Crime=criminal.

What "bigotry"? This was a news story. :(

So now mods are re-writing/changing posts? :confused:

I believe he highlighted.

The news story itself cannot be classified as bigotry. 17 people died in a police chase. That is news worthy. What is bigotry is your interpretation of the story and how you posted it.

You failed to realise the tragedy of 17 deaths. You focused only on the fact that you assumed they were in the US illegally and it is therefore ok that they died as they did. I will not bother to point out your lack of human decency, in what appears to me to be your joy at their death due to your perceiving them as illegals, since others have done so.

Actually any death during a felony and the perpetrators of the felony can be charged with murder.

Rob a liquor store for a grand and if grandpa behind the counter keels over from fright and has a heart attack and you are screwed.

and if grandpa shot your accomplise, you would be charged with that death as well.

...You failed to realise the tragedy of 17 deaths. You focused only on the fact that you assumed they were in the US illegally and it is therefore ok that they died as they did. I will not bother to point out your lack of human decency, in what appears to me to be your joy at their death due to your perceiving them as illegals, since others have done so.

They are here illegally. There is no joy when criminal aliens lead our police on 100 mph chases through OUR cities. :mad: There is no joy when anyone dies. :mad: I never said that. Quit misinterpreting/twisting my words. :mad:

And to Plazma and James: I'm guessing you don't live here. You don't see the death and destruction they have brought here. Sympathy, mercy, charity and love are one thing. Stupidity about letting your soverign nation become a third-world country is another.

There is no joy when anyone dies. :mad: I never said that. Quit misinterpreting/twisting my words. :mad:


Oh?

Lets see..

sandy's comment:

Police are overworked and fed up with this bs. We hear stories like this every day here on the West coast.
No, no joy there. And in that you are correct. Justification for their deaths and that 'who cares.. they're only illegals after all' attitude... yes.

And to Plazma and James: I'm guessing you don't live here. You don't see the death and destruction they have brought here. Sympathy, mercy, charity and love are one thing. Stupidity about letting your sovereign nation become a third-world country is another.
You still don't get it. And sadly, you never will get it. The article itself was not about illegal immigration or what it is doing to your country. The article was about the tragic deaths of 17 people. It is quite blatant and obvious. But you twisted it to suit your own agenda. As a result, you have come off looking like an insensitive ass.

You preach love under a Christian ethos. And then you come out with the above. I sense a hypocrit in the force.:rolleyes:

... Sympathy, mercy, charity and love are one thing. Stupidity about letting your soverign nation become a third-world country is another.



There may also an element of envy at work here, especially among Europeans of a socialist persuasion. Many would like nothing more than to see the USA devolve and deteriorate in a "European" manner.

Yea, wrath is cruel and anger is outrageous; but who can stand before envy?

Bull. "Justification for their deaths and that 'who cares.. they're only illegals after all' attitude... yes." I NEVER SAID THAT. I NEVER MEANT THAT. STOP MISINTERPRETING/MISQUOTING/TWISTING WHAT I SAID. I'm tired of it. Fed up. :mad:

I think it's you and everyone who does not live around criminal aliens that just doesn't get it. This isn't about being nice to someone. It's about a criminal invasion of my country by parasites who are destroying it. It's easy to look at us from across the country or across the globe with disdain for not embracing these people. But guess what? We've had enough.

Oh?

Lets see..


No, no joy there. And in that you are correct. Justification for their deaths and that 'who cares.. they're only illegals after all' attitude... yes.


You still don't get it. And sadly, you never will get it. The article itself was not about illegal immigration or what it is doing to your country. The article was about the tragic deaths of 17 people. It is quite blatant and obvious. But you twisted it to suit your own agenda. As a result, you have come off looking like an insensitive ass.

You preach love under a Christian ethos. And then you come out with the above. I sense a hypocrit in the force.:rolleyes:

No Bells, you dont get it.

IF they were not trying to evade police BECAUSE they are ILLEGAL they would not have flipped over during a high speed chase. Police do not know who is running from them, there could be someones abducted kid in that truck....etc.

Have a few high speed chases around you neighborhood and see how much you like them.

I have to say, calling Sandy a racist is getting a little old.;)

Oh?

... The article itself was not about illegal immigration or what it is doing to your country. The article was about the tragic deaths of 17 people. It is quite blatant and obvious. But you twisted it to suit your own agenda ...


With all due respect Madame, it is you who are twisting the contents of the article to suit your own agenda.

The article stated:

"Three people died and 14 were hurt on Monday ... "

Three people died, according to the article, not seventeen, as thou dost so assiduously assert. In your zeal to crucify Sandy afresh, your reading comprehension has taken a sabbatical.

Be of good cheer.
God bless you.

Bull. "Justification for their deaths and that 'who cares.. they're only illegals after all' attitude... yes." I NEVER SAID THAT. I NEVER MEANT THAT. STOP MISINTERPRETING/MISQUOTING/TWISTING WHAT I SAID. I'm tired of it. Fed up. :mad:

I think it's you and everyone who does not live around criminal aliens that just doesn't get it. This isn't about being nice to someone. It's about a criminal invasion of my country by parasites who are destroying it. It's easy to look at us from across the country or across the globe with disdain for not embracing these people. But guess what? We've had enough.

Misinterpreting your words? They are quite blatantly obvious sandy. To say what you say, be called out on it and then have you again saying you're misinterpreting me.. that's getting a little old.

And you still don't get it.

No one is saying to embrace. Jesus woman. You're just about dancing in circles around their corpses the way you are going. Your whole attitude is 'oh they're dead.. but they are illegals.. soooo..':rolleyes: .. it's a huge bloody but you have there and it is down right ugly.

No Bells, you dont get it.

IF they were not trying to evade police BECAUSE they are ILLEGAL they would not have flipped over during a high speed chase. Police do not know who is running from them, there could be someones abducted kid in that truck....etc.

Nice.

Do you think if there had been someone's abducted child in that truck, that the police would have been justified in their actions by saying 'we didn't know', after their actions led to that child's death? Or is it because sandy says they are illegal that makes you say 'meh'? This story was not about illegal immigrants. She took a tragedy and then used it to push her own agenda across. Kind of disgusting in my opinion.

I think it is you who does not get it.

Nutter

You are quite correct. My apologies for saying 17. 3 people died. I was glancing at the thread title as I typed.

I have seen enough "Cops" to know that citizens and legal residents of the US engage in high speed pursuits with law enforcement officers all the time.

I think it's you and everyone who does not live around criminal aliens that just doesn't get it. This isn't about being nice to someone. It's about a criminal invasion of my country by parasites who are destroying it.

Its about a basic lack of human compassion. How can you call another human being a "parasite"? That's a Nazi mentality.

And yet, at the same time you rail against Muslims who consider you to be a parasite. You're the same as them.

sandy this country was founded on imagration wheather legal or not it is the life blood of our great nation. to try and prevent imagration in the ways you have suggested quite frankly is unamerican. we need to create a system where people do not feel as if they have to sneak across the border to get a better life but enter legally to do so.

And to Plazma and James: I'm guessing you don't live here.
You're right. I don't live here.

You don't see the death and destruction they have brought here.
I bet you stride over the piles of dead bodies every day when you go to the shopping.

Sympathy, mercy, charity and love are one thing. Stupidity about letting your soverign nation become a third-world country is another.
I guess this is sandy's Freudian slip.

Oh crap, no more luxuries and commodities, free coupons, loans, traveling in Europe or Australia. Farewell to the beach visits on Sundays.
My yearly income will be only 5000 $, if I am lucky...
Oh no, we became a Third World country... Where's the Valium? Where's that gun when you need it?!

sandy dear, being citizen of Third World country is not so scary. Believe me.
Truth is that you have less money, you cannot travel freely without tons of papers and permits or you cannot travel at all (every border has its meaning then), you have to work extra hard or to find extra jobs (if you are lucky to find any job), there are loans in Third World also, for cars and houses, but majority take loans to survive from month to month,...
But, at least you value what you have and you are happy with small things.

See, no big deal.

But, sometimes these people became fed up with that kind of life. They are fed up to raise their children in world like that. They decide to risk everything and to cross the border. Most of them cannot get papers, so they decide to enter illegally. They come in Dreamlands (not only US) and work from dawn till midnight to feed their families.
Most of them are practically invisible. You see poor Jose only when he's been caught by authorities and when he became hot topic of Fox News coverage.
Then you'll say:" Bloody immigrants. They're ruining our lives and our values." Although, you never saw poor Jose before, because all what he's been doing is work in double shifts to feed his family.

On the other hand, I also don't approve criminals. Whoever committed a crime, should take responsibility , no matter on origin, nationality, wealth,...
But, I think you have issue with immigrants in general. I bet you cannot notice distinction between legal or illegal immigrant. Between a criminal and decent member of the community.

Imagine that you notice a man of Latin American origin on the street, wearing shorts and stained T-Shirt and caring paper bag. He nervously crosses the street, obviously in hurry.
What you will think about him?

Is there any possibility that you will think that he is a respectable university professor from the neighborhood, caught in the middle of bike repair, who has been left without screws and nuts and who ran in the store in his working clothes just to buy those parts.

I doubt.

It's hard to maintain selective perception once when you've built your perfect world on prejudices.

Anyway, I though to respond something more about freedom and how it's nice to live in world without borders, but now I see that you actually live surrounded by them. Both on maps and in mind.

That was nice Plazma,

First, I know you did not call Sandy a racist but too many people here get rheir rocks off throwing insults that it becomes institutionalized. 'your a racist' Why? because everyone else who does not think says so.

Bells is full of shit. She is the epitome of hypocrisy, ......

Now this might seem harsh but some people here do not hold back and it brings us to the heart of the matter.

Poverty

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=10847

"We have the fourth highest number of millionaires in the world, in Mexico. That would be ok, if there wasn't so much poverty. But there are 50 million Mexicans that live in extreme poverty. So our project is in favour of humble people, poor people."

http://www.cis.org/articles/2001/mexico/release.html

1 in 10 people born in Mexico poor come to the U.S while Mexico's high living millionaires and billionaires get off without paying a dime to care for them. But guess who is going to take care of the.

Even after welfare reform, an estimated 34 percent of households headed by legal Mexican immigrants and 25 percent headed by illegal Mexican immigrants used at least one major welfare program, in contrast to 15 percent of native households. Mexican immigrants who have lived in the United States for more than 20 years, almost all of whom are legal residents, still have double the welfare use rate of natives.

http://images.google.com/images?um=1&tab=wi&client=firefox-a&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=poverty%20in%20mexico

POVERTY

http://www.nriinternet.com/Did_you_Know/India/index.htm

India now is home to 83,000 millionaires and the country saw the world's second fastest growth, at 19.3 per cent, in the number of high net-worth individuals in 2005

83,000 fucking millionaires.

http://images.google.com/images?um=1&tab=wi&client=firefox-a&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=poverty%20in%20india

So you tell me what the problem is, because it sure is not Sandy.

And it sure is not America who has taken more poor people and gave them hope than any other country i know of. If i am wrong then prove it.


No one, NO ONE should have to live like the people in those image, we should hang our heads in shame for letting this happen.

Bells is full of shit.

No. I just went.

She is the epitome of hypocrisy,
Aren't we all?

I really believe
And? What's your point? I sense a contradiction coming. Ah yes. Here it is:

(although i dont know this person on a personal level)

No you do not. You know nothing about me, just as I know nothing about you.

that the only time she cares about poverty is if someone would want to take money out of her account to feed a poor person or when she has to step over their emaciated bodies lyinhg in the gutter.
Lets go back to what you said earlier...

"although i dont know this person on a personal level"

Hmmmm... so you believe I don't care, but you admit you know nothing about me. So which is it? Or is this you taking yet another little dig at me? You seem to follow me around these boards doing just that. At least I'd willingly give my last dollar to buy an aspirin for a dying child, illegal or not. We both know what you would do, don't we John?

I have seen every con artist, bullshitter, swindler imaginable...
Ditto..

i know when i am getting stroked.
One would hope so. However, as you said yourself..

"although i dont know this person on a personal level"

Interesting.

To many people poverty is as significant as a rock in their shoe, but coming on here and saying 'look at what YOU are saying' etc. makes them feel better.

Feel better? Yes John. I feel better about seeing people saying they would not bother to waste their tax dollars on an aspirin on a dying child if they were an illegal immigrant.

And yes, someone has to pay for it. Tell me John, being the so called lover of mankind that you supposedly show yourself to be, would you refuse treatment to a child of an illegal alien because some of your tax dollars might go towards said treatment?

NO, and they wouldnt get an aspirin with my tax dollars my girlfriend pays all the taxes and i have no say in where it goes, i dont earn any money myself. I checked my bank balance and i have $300 dollars in my account, i really dont care much about personal wealth. But i am a homekeeper so that is my job.
Link (http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1376612&postcount=112)


Funny that huh? You justify your doing nothing by hiding behind your girlfriend.

No one, NO ONE should have to live like the people in those image, we should hang our heads in shame for letting this happen.
Indeed. So why don't you tell us what you are doing to rectify the situation John. Do you give parts of your allowance to help the needy? Donate your time to their cause?

You can believe whatever you want to believe. At the end of the day, we still have:

"although i dont know this person on a personal level"

In short. Shove it.:)

sandy this country was founded on imagration wheather legal or not it is the life blood of our great nation. to try and prevent imagration in the ways you have suggested quite frankly is unamerican. we need to create a system where people do not feel as if they have to sneak across the border to get a better life but enter legally to do so.

Yes our nation was founded on Immigration, Legal Immigration, and the time from when this Nation was founded to the present day, has change.

No nation on earth can survive if it is overwhelmed by illegal immigration, the cost of having to support those people will break the nation.

The U.S. has a population of 300,000,000 residents, the Illegals make up 20% of the population, and the cost are staggering:

http://degreeofmadness.typepad.com/degree_of_madness/2007/04/cost_of_illegal.html

Rector found that in 2004, the most recent year for which figures are available, low-skill households received an average of $32,138 per household — the great majority in the form of means-tested aid and direct benefits. (Rector excluded from that figure the cost of public goods and interest; with those included, he says, each low-skill household receives an average of $43,084.) Against that, Rector found that low-skill households paid an average of $9,689 in taxes. (The biggest chunk of that was the Social Security tax — $2,509 — followed by state and local taxes, consumption taxes, property taxes, and federal income taxes, but Rector counted everything, including highway levies and lottery purchases.) In the final calculation, he found, the average low-skill household received $22,449 more in benefits than it paid in taxes — the $32,138 in benefits, excluding public goods, minus the $9,689 in taxes.

Taking that $22,449, and multiplying it by the 17.7 million low-skill households, Rector found that the total deficit for such households was $397 billion in 2004. “Over the next ten years the total cost of low-skill households to the taxpayer (immediate benefits minus taxes paid) is likely to be at least $3.9 trillion,” Rector writes. “This number would go up significantly if changes in immigration policy lead to substantial increases in the number of low-skill immigrants entering the country and receiving services.”

From a purely money perspective, it’s a powerful argument. At a cost of $22,449 per household per year — well, multiply that by an adult lifespan of 50 years and you have an average lifetime cost to the taxpayer of $1.1 million per unskilled worker. Increase that population with a wave of unskilled immigrants, and you’re talking a lot of money.

Do illegal immigrants bring economic benefits that outweigh the costs? Hard to imagine but according to a Manhattan Institute study, the cost pales in comparison to the benefits:

http://www.cis.org/articles/2001/mexico/release.html

• Because of their much lower education levels, Mexican immigrants earn significantly less than natives on average. This results in lower average tax payments and heavier use of means-tested programs. Based on estimates developed by the National Academy of Sciences for immigrants by age and education at arrival, the lifetime fiscal impact (taxes paid minus services used) for the average adult Mexican immigrant is a negative $55,200.

• Although they comprise 4.2 percent of the nation’s total population, Mexican immigrants and their U.S.-born children (under 18) account for 10.2 percent of all persons in poverty and 12.5 percent of those without health insurance. Even among Mexican immigrant families that have lived in United States for more than 20 years, almost all of whom are legal residents, more than half live in or near poverty and one-third are uninsured

• Even after welfare reform, an estimated 34 percent of households headed by legal Mexican immigrants and 25 percent headed by illegal Mexican immigrants used at least one major welfare program, in contrast to 15 percent of native households. Mexican immigrants who have lived in the United States for more than 20 years, almost all of whom are legal residents, still have double the welfare use rate of natives.

• Mexican immigration acts as a subsidy to businesses that employ unskilled workers, holding down labor costs while taxpayers pick up the costs of providing services to a much larger poor and low-income population.

• The lower educational attainment of Mexican immigrants appears to persist across the generations. The high school dropout rates of native-born Mexican-Americans (both second and third generation) are two and a half times that of other natives.




People say that it's impossible to secure our border? Are they right? No, they're not. The reason why our borders are not secure today is because the border patrol has been dramatically underfunded, undermanned, and not given the technology they need to do their jobs.

For example, we only have 11,000 border patrol agents working on both the US and Canadian border combined. On the other hand, New York City alone has 39,110 officers. How can anyone expect us to secure both our Northern and Southern borders with 1/3 of the personnel used to handle a single city?

Furthermore, we don't give our border patrol agents the technology that they need to do their job. As Congressman Tom Tancredo has pointed out, with the proper technology our borders can be locked down tightly:


"The marines did a little (exercise) just North of Idaho. One Hundred marines with three drones and two radar stations controlled 100 miles of the most rugged border you ever saw in your life. While I was there, just one week-end while I was there, they intercepted four people coming across on ATVs carrying four hundred pounds of drugs, we got a light plane trying to come in under the radar, and so it can happen. We can control our borders, we just choose not too."


If we properly staff our border patrols, build a wall, use sensors, remote controlled drones, and radar stations, we can slow the raging flood of illegal aliens coming over our border down to a trickle. It's not "impossible," in fact, it probably wouldn't even be all that difficult, we just haven't made the effort.



"According to a new survey by the Pew Hispanic Center, illegals make up 24 percent of workers in agriculture, 17 percent in cleaning, 14 percent in construction, and 12 percent in food production. So 86 percent of construction workers, for instance, are either legal immigrants or Americans, despite the fact that this is one of the alleged categories of untouchable jobs."


In 1994, Pete Wilson supported Prop 187, a bill that cut off government services to illegal aliens. Prop 187 passed with the support of 59% of the voters (including 31% of the Hispanic vote). So, did Wilson get buried by the "backlash?" No, instead he won a 15 point landslide victory

Well said, Plazma.