Have just wached a really really disturbing documentary called Death etal Murders http://www.bbc.co.uk/ThisWorld

SHIT! it is about his death metal group who get into atanic occultic activityand savagely kill a series of people, including a mmber of teir group and a groupie
we see te bands perform with deadpig heads....singers growlig yrics of rape and murder and of killing chrstians and vitms being merely animated marionettes......really horrific pictures on CD covers, cannailism. crowds all shoing the hand gesture of the forefinger and little finge raised meaning Satanic worship......uggggggghhhhhh! gruesome

the Illuminati wasn't meantion at all. but we know that teir sign to ech other is also tat hand gesture.

both do blood sacrifice to Satan who tey equate wih Satan

it is love of horror isn't it?......it was a ecstaic communal thing agaoing on yeah. but there was no deep erotic feel about it. just ugly looking faces creaming obscenities and how tey love blood and filth ad rape and torture and sacrifice to Satan

no wondere it is allowed. the Illumianti elite must be over te fukin moon. bet they secretly fund it

imagined watching it finding myself in te midst of it trippin on shrooms. it would BE hell wouldn't it?...or at least--not like Concentration amp hell. but likean ENTRANCE

i know...typos, but also meant to say 'they equate Satan with Lucifer.....i mean that the Illuminati follow a Luciferian philosophy which is commensurate wit Satanism

I just watched the very same programme and ended up having a very heated debate with my girlfriend about it all.

Children should be educated about what satanism really is aswell as christianity and other religions.

The bands can not be held to account for what these uneducated fools go out and do but to be fair they should market the music more carefully. To be honest i hate death metal not because of this but i just can't listen to it. It is not art, simply a group of men screaming about blood, guts, rape, torture, fuck, fuck, fuck my cross. It has no meaning other than it seems to represent to me the darkest thoughts we all have but don't scream in peoples faces.

'they equate Satan with Lucifer.....i mean that the Illuminati follow a Luciferian philosophy which is commensurate wit Satanism

errr...

Thank goodness you cleared that up.

;)

I think it's far more likely there are just a lot of idiots in the world who lap up the sort of crap these people produce because the thought that they can somehow tap into a secret source of "mystical power" or whatever makes them feel that their pitiful lives are not indeed meaningless.
Otherwise, these so-called "musicians" could fart out all the nonsense they cared to, and the end result would be a collective yawn of boredom as people got on with something more interesting.

You know, Ben Franklin was in the Illuminati...
That's how he managed to set up the first series of franchised print shops in the 13 colonies. Low-interest loans from his pals in the "Secret Sect of the Eyeball", as he glibly referred to them.
I'm sure they didn't appreciate his witicisms, but after surviving the lightning strike brought on by flying his kite into thunderheads, he had proven himself invincible, and hence they dared not move against him.

.

when i was a youngkid--say to the age of bout 9, i wasinto fairy books. my fave book i was reading--when most kids had gone onto Janet an John books---this is goin back a bit hehe, but you know kids bpoks jut about young kiddie adventure type stuff--i was reading The Magic Chair. about this ..err magic chair which takes the sitter to all tese faerydimensions

THEn about 10 onwars i startted getting into Pan Horror boks. major change hey? soon grew ot of it to. mainly dude to LSDexperiences at 15 where i gorokked into magical Nature again

when i seen tose youths and older people..in that docu. i could in a way identify wit tem. i imagined in i was in teir generation and had graduated from Pan Horror to the Pig Fukin Foetus Eaters, or som such charming band

I feel that we are suppressedd by this culture. who here will admit/agree wit me? notmany will. oppression means oppression of ecstasy. not te drug'Ecstasy' as such, but te actual feeling of ecstatic expression........i am exploring that that stuff on that docu is showing how when suppressed it can STICK in a distorted mode where sensuality is left out. by sensuality i mean --an openess to sensuality, where there is no desire to rape and harm your partner(s) ...yet can also be wild too.......tat shit on that prg was just hate hate hate. the isa way to beee wild witout wallowing in the Cradle of Filth

Satanic bands don't necessarily have anything to do with the Illuminati.

You know, Ben Franklin was in the Illuminati....

No, he was a Freemason.

the hand gesture of the forefinger and little finge raised meaning Satanic worship...... but we know that teir sign to ech other is also tat hand gesture.

Actually, the hand gesture in question, mano cornuto is for warding off evil, specifically "The Evil Eye".

As the alleged symbol of the Illuminati is the 'All Seeing Eye' these symbols don't sit well together.

here is the 'difference' between freemasons and the Illuminati. in the Lodges many do charity work and believe they are being good litte freemasons....BUT, tey are relly just dupes on te lor rungs of the pyramid hierarchy. not being told what is going on in te top--ie., where the Illuminati art at/

nuthin new. do solidiers KNOW what thier superiors have planned for them? do you think if they deeply KNEW tey would join up?? well?

and shaman. explain more why satanic groups aren't connected withthe Illuminati? how do you mean? and, do yo have any friends into death metal?

We've had that assertion from you before duendy, but it has one fatal flaw, that the Masons existed long before 'The Illuminati' and that the latter based their rituals and organisation on the former.

and shaman. explain more why satanic groups aren't connected withthe Illuminati? how do you mean? and, do yo have any friends into death metal?
I don't directly know anyone who is into it but I know the type. From what I have seen the illuminati is not part of their motivation.

Are you saying that the connection is there because of the horns symbol?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corna

I see every second teenager do that at the music festivals I go to.

We've had that assertion from you before duendy, but it has one fatal flaw, that the Masons existed long before 'The Illuminati' and that the latter based their rituals and organisation on the former.
am wondering what you mean by 'fatal flaw'......? what does it UNDO?
isn't it besides to point who came first? te fact is the Illuminati are the top dogs and many freemasons have no clue what they are a part of.

i am curious phlo ....where is yor sorce of information?

I don't directly know anyone who is into it but I know the type. From what I have seen the illuminati is not part of their motivation.

Are you saying that the connection is there because of the horns symbol?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corna

I see every second teenager do that at the music festivals I go to.
have seen pics of Bush nd Clinto do it...and Blair posing like Aleister Crowley--anothe Illuminist--for photos

IF you think i mean that many of te fans of death metal who alsoo pracitce the occult are AWAREof their practices being linked with Illuminati, maybe not, but i bet the Illuminati poeple love whats going on!

am wondering what you mean by 'fatal flaw'......? what does it UNDO?
isn't it besides to point who came first? te fact is the Illuminati are the top dogs and many freemasons have no clue what they are a part of.

It undoes your entire premise, that's what. The masons existed centuries before "The Illuminati". It is a matter of record that the Illuminati copied masonic ritual in an attempt to become more popular. It is a mattter of record that the membership of "The Illuminati' was always small, and is now inconsequential.

i am curious phlo ....where is yor sorce of information?

Ha! That's rich, coming from you? You make statements about a romanticised group subverting a fairly covert one, without a shred of evidence, and have the gall to ask me for source when I challenge you on your assertions!

Care to make comment on the 'mano cornuto'? I thought you knew your 'occult symbolism' but that assertion of yours was a rather schoolboy error!

Face it, your opinions are are products of your paranoid, fetid imagination, not facts.

It undoes your entire premise, that's what.

me)))))oh, is that so?

The masons existed centuries before "The Illuminati".

me))))show us yer source mr evidence man. or it stays ...achem, 'anecdotal' init?

It is a matter of record that the Illuminati copied masonic ritual in an attempt to become more popular.

me)))))em Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, i am now askin mr phlogos to introduce evidence

It is a mattter of record that the membership of "The Illuminati' was always small, and is now inconsequential.

me:::::::'matter of record' hey...evidence!


Ha! That's rich, coming from you? You make statements about a romanticised group subverting a fairly covert one, without a shred of evidence, and have the gall to ask me for source when I challenge you on your assertions!

me)))yes, i am having the gall. where is it mr. till you show its all hot air from la materialist

Care to make comment on the 'mano cornuto'? I thought you knew your 'occult symbolism' but that assertion of yours was a rather schoolboy error!

me)))))))so...go on teach. show us yours and i'll show you mine. and wats that Latin meqn, or are you beling deliberately elitist?

Face it, your opinions are are products of your paranoid, fetid imagination, not facts.
mr Gradgrind the second wit his facts ('mr Gradgrind' was a character from a Charles Dicken's novel , Hard Times'--he represents th materialistic attitude of te hard cruel and unfeeling Industrial Revolution!)

duendy, substantiate your claims (as you made yours first) please!

You always do this, make a claim, without any substantiation whatsoever, and when called on it, ask for evidence that it isn't true!

What's 'mano cornuto'? Are you serious? This from the person who is allegedly knowledgeable on 'occult symbolism'???? That is just too funny for words! Just shows as always duendy, you're talking out of your hat.

On a different topic, How much do you get on disability allowance these days?

No, he was a Freemason.

LoL

I know.

I was being silly.

Or did he really survive a lightning strike while flying that dad-blamed kite ???

;)

duendy, substantiate your claims (as you made yours first) please!

me))))))no after you...please!

You always do this, make a claim, without any substantiation whatsoever, and when called on it, ask for evidence that it isn't true!

me)))))'evidence' is your middle name. you live in a materialist default--constantly demanding evidence. must be painful...?

What's 'mano cornuto'? Are you serious? This from the person who is allegedly knowledgeable on 'occult symbolism'????

me))did i SAY i was? i KNOWit when i sees it. i have done research a bit about chaos magick, and numerology, nd general occultism, but am not an occultist---like you?

That is just too funny for words! Just shows as always duendy, you're talking out of your hat.

me)))glad to give ya a good laugh. now....wherestheevidence??

On a different topic, How much do you get on disability allowance these days?
oh your telepathic as well?....wooooo will have to careful of dyu!
dont mess to close now tho y'haer. cause i got my mo jo wokin!

Duendy, it's you making unsubstantiated claims about the Illuminati. So list a source.

On 'occult symbolism', well, you inferred you knew about it when you took a tangent on a different thread. You mentioned it several times, further implying it was a topic of significance to you. Turns out though, that you are ignorant of the very basics of the subject! You have been undone.

Numerology is big in Judaism, (Gematria) btw, and is not occult, it is rather more to do with mysticism.

So how much is disability duendy?

Duendy, it's you making unsubstantiated claims about the Illuminati. So list a source.

me)))))haha this run n run. if you use them fingers google Illuminati. voila you have countess threads. take yer pick tho choose wisely. only thing worries me is this:seemingly all of em are Christian run, and coming from Christian perspective/worldview which condemns homoseuxality, psychedelic exploration, non-procreative sex. tus for them all who ar not Christians are potental Illuminari anyhow. that is shit!
now, phlo. YoU hafe come up wit seeminly alternativeinfo, right? so he onus is on YOU to produce yer precious evidence. we await......this year maybe? its runnin out!

On 'occult symbolism', well, you inferred you knew about it when you took a tangent on a different thread. You mentioned it several times, further implying it was a topic of significance to you. Turns out though, that you are ignorant of the very basics of the subject! You have been undone.

me))ohhh bolloks. undone shcnmum. i repeat, yes i know a bit. and am aware occultic symbolism is all over the event 9/11.....are you? just answer yes or no, and why not?

Numerology is big in Judaism, (Gematria) btw, and is not occult, it is rather more to do with mysticism.

me)))))it is occult. all 'occult' means is 'hidden cult'.....! for an elite/initiated

So how much is disability duendy?
you are a presumptious cheeky sod...i knows that much

you may think you know my bizness dude, but certainlycan dig how your mind works ...i know you would come back with some put down about my translation of 'occult'....altho i stick with it, it actually means 'hidden'.....numeroloy is very important to te Illuminati

Have just wached a really really disturbing documentary called Death etal Murders http://www.bbc.co.uk/ThisWorld

That was about a black metal band (Mayhem) and concerns the black metal acts in Scandinavia and Germania, 1990-1996.

If you want to understand the metal subculture, this is the best link on the net:
http://www.anus.com/metal

(Not for the faint of heart!)

If you want to read about black metal in Norway, try this book:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0922915946/

These are good books for background:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0786415851/
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/193259504X/

Duendy, a lot of nutters with web pages about the Illuminati and the 'mano cornuto' sign is still a lot of nutters. Try reading a reputable source.

Talking of sources, care to link to a reputable source that backs up your claims about the Illuminati in Freemasonry?

Occult symbolism in 9/11. Well, that's another tangent, but considering you didn't know what 'mano cornuto' was, I don't think you'd recognise an occult symbol if it bit you on the nose. Of course, reading more into 9/11 than there was is just more tin foil hat stuff, duendy.

That was about a black metal band (Mayhem) and concerns the black metal acts in Scandinavia and Germania, 1990-1996.

If you want to understand the metal subculture, this is the best link on the net:
http://www.anus.com/metal

(Not for the faint of heart!)

If you want to read about black metal in Norway, try this book:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0922915946/

These are good books for background:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0786415851/
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/193259504X/
are YOU into death metal? you seem t know alot about it?

It's actually mano cornuta, as mano is feminine.

But trivialties.

The organizations typically referred to as Illuminati arose about the same time Freemasonry is commonly agreed to have come about.

The earliest evidence of an Illuminati secret club is about 1430.

For the Freemasons it may be as early as the 10th century, though probably more like 1390.

Freemasonry didn't really pick up until the 16th century, and some cholars maintain that it actually began in the 17th century, all previous evidence having been made up or fabricated.

You fly fags should drop by wikipedia sometime.

Duendy, a lot of nutters with web pages about the Illuminati and the 'mano cornuto' sign is still a lot of nutters. Try reading a reputable source.

me)))))))i ALREADY EXPLAINED. IT IS THE OVER PREPONDERENCE OF cHRISTANS (oooops soz) that i abhor. and seemingly fundamenaltsts also......good example. shot time ago i was reading a Paul Joseph Watson from Infowars. He is talkin bout that SOO Hollywood is releasing to ourscreens propganda about 9/11 and Iraq. Also Bruce Willis --ant stand him--a makor eno-con isgoing to be part of a film which says that Iraq is now a paradise etc....IWAS going to foreward tis article till i got to his sentecne that he'd recently watched the Simpsons, and they had tried to make Lesbian marriage seem wholesome......suddenly realized, YIP, heres another fukin christian spreading malicious propaganda against people yet at the sae time seeming to abhpor the evils of the Illuminati. what fukin hypocrisy! so i've emailed that dude and let him know my thoughts......there seems to be a going on all over te web a game of Christianity versus Luciernainism. BOTH are coming from t same patrarchal root!! BOT wat utter control over Nature and individual freedom

Talking of sources, care to link to a reputable source that backs up your claims about the Illuminati in Freemasonry?

me))));ike i say take your pick. now over to you. what this ever so righgteous one YOU mean?

Occult symbolism in 9/11. Well, that's another tangent, but considering you didn't know what 'mano cornuto' was, I don't think you'd recognise an occult symbol if it bit you on the nose. Of course, reading more into 9/11 than there was is just more tin foil hat stuff, duendy.
ahhhh your just doin what you knows best. being arrogant and callin names.
so let me ask you this. Do you believe an elite org cllin itself the Illuminati, and leaving its occult symbolism all over '9/11' '7/7' (HINT HINT!!!!!!!!!) is reponsible for 9/11 and 7/7?

i take it you follow the OFFICIAL STORY? am i correct in my assumption??

Freemasonry didn't really pick up until the 16th century, and some cholars maintain that it actually began in the 17th century, all previous evidence having been made up or fabricated.

That's the real issue. All of these secret societies claimed ancestry to make themselves more mystic and to add credibility (references to Soloman, etc). Of course, it was all horse puckey. They were merely less extreme versions of 'The Hellfire Club' and it's imitators of that era. Seems that stuff was the vogue at the time.

it is occult. all 'occult' means is 'hidden cult'.....! for an elite/initiated

It has nothing to do with 'cults' duendy! 'Occult' is a derivative of 'occluded' meaning hidden, or covered. It makes no assumption about 'cult' membership, or elitism, that's you reading more into the word htan is there.

Also, is it is now largely documented in books, it's hardly 'hidden' any more, is it?

Anyway. back on topic, numerology isn't 'occult', it's a facet of Judaism.

ALREADY EXPLAINED. IT IS THE OVER PREPONDERENCE OF cHRISTANS

Yes, and I already said a bunch of nutters with web sites are still a bunch of nutters, duendy. Christians are as nutty as believers in Satan or the Illuminati, NWO, or 9/11 conspiracies.

Now, a reputable source for your assertions, please.

Oh, and how much do you get on disability, btw?

It has nothing to do with 'cults' duendy! 'Occult' is a derivative of 'occluded' meaning hidden, or covered. It makes no assumption about 'cult' membership, or elitism, that's you reading more into the word htan is there.

Also, is it is now largely documented in books, it's hardly 'hidden' any more, is it?

Anyway. back on topic, numerology isn't 'occult', it's a facet of Judaism.
another post told you i also know it means hidden
and numerology IS part of the occult. as i keeps tellin ya. the Illuminati use it for te bombing atrocities, space missions etc

AND numerology wasn't just used by Hebrews

the Illuminati wasn't meantion at all. but we know that teir sign to ech other is also tat hand gesture.


well, from reading behold, a pale horse by william cooper, i thought that the illuminati handsign was for one menber to raise their hand the their forhead palm inwards, and for the other to reply with the gesture of one hand grasping the earlobe, while cupping the elbow of that arm with their other hand.

just a side note, and it may not be correct. from all my illuminati "research" i've never heard of the "horns" as an illuminati handsign...

Yes, and I already said a bunch of nutters with web sites are still a bunch of nutters, duendy. Christians are as nutty as believers in Satan or the Illuminati, NWO, or 9/11 conspiracies.

me))one has to be discerning. your way seems to me to be --call al i dont understand/wont understand 'nutters'....then i am safe. but someof these sites give good analysis. it is just their fundamentalism which pisses me off

Now, a reputable source for your assertions, please.

me))))ask till you blue in te face.....go on. and have you answered me this simple question? DO you believe in the OFFICIAL story about 9/11, yes or no?

Oh, and how much do you get on disability, btw?
IF i am so what? what has it got to do wit you anyway? what has it got to do with this debate?

another post told you i also know it means hidden

But you added the 'cult' part, and it has nothing to do with cults.

nd numerology IS part of the occult. as i keeps tellin ya. the Illuminati use it for te bombing atrocities, space missions etc

No, losers use spuroius methods to derive all manner of strange significances from mundane dates. Bigger losers buy it.

AND numerology wasn't just used by Hebrews

No, but it's one the few Alphabets (or should I say AlephBets) where it's relevant, as Hebrew letters have a corresponding numeric value. Any other method is rather more contrived.

one has to be discerning. your way seems to me to be --call al i dont understand

I am discerning, I can tell the difference between fact and fiction, and smell BS. There's not a lot of woowoo stuff I don't understand, I perfectly understand their willingness to lie for self aggrandisement, for instance.

/wont understand 'nutters'....then i am safe. but someof these sites give good analysis. it is just their fundamentalism which pisses me off

Good analysis of what? You have to have data to analyse, and I've never seen any that held up.

ask till you blue in te face.....go on. and have you answered me this simple question? DO you believe in the OFFICIAL story about 9/11, yes or no?

What do you think the 'official' story is? I think it's that a bunch of pissed off muslims flew a couple of planes into the WTC to wake up the USA. I think it was planned and executed by Al Qaeda, just like the previous attempt of detonating a bomb in the subterranean parking lot was. What conspiracy theory do you subscribe to?

Oh, and how much do you get on disability, btw?

IF i am so what? what has it got to do wit you anyway? what has it got to do with this debate?

I'm trying to understand you, duendy. Your lack of self respect, why you feel conspired against by the govt, mental health organisations pharmaceutical companies, 'The Illuminati', etc. I'm sure considering yourself as somehow involved, and noticed by these large groups, and thinking you have some key knowledge brightens up your day, but you could ry and fill your days with far more constructive things.

But you added the 'cult' part, and it has nothing to do with cults.

me)))look phlo. return to te place you refer to andlook at following post wherei also tell you i know it means 'hidden'....i did it case i knew you'd be on my interpretation like a fly on shit


No, losers use spuroius methods to derive all manner of strange significances from mundane dates. Bigger losers buy it.

me)))oh. not 'whackos' now, but 'losers'. what is yurrrrr evidence for tis dismissal
ofthemeticulous use of numerology all over 9/11. show me the websites(s) which dispute it please. or is tis gonna turn into anothr farce?



No, but it's one the few Alphabets (or should I say AlephBets) where it's relevant, as Hebrew letters have a corresponding numeric value. Any other method is rather more contrived.
oh right. so you mean phlo is right once agin?.....look the bottom line is this. SOMEone has left a numerological callin card/signature over 9/11.....right? tisoccultic symbolism which is commensurate with how buildings and roads in Washington DC have bee planned an built, the Space Programme etc etc etc. see the pattern. tere is a communication being relayed to tose in the know as far as i can see. IF you dispute this then present someone who analyzes it to be nonesense. if not, itisjust your empty words claimingit is all rubbish. that is not enuf

SOMEone has left a numerological callin card/signature over 9/11.....right?
huh? Explain.

I am discerning, I can tell the difference between fact and fiction, and smell BS.

me)))))))))i am not convinced yo have the intuition you think you have. i haven't called you a materialist for nuthin. I dont see you can intuit patterns for example.

There's not a lot of woowoo stuff I don't understand, I perfectly understand their willingness to lie for self aggrandisement, for instance.

me))))))))everything is woo woo to yoo yoo isn't it phlo, form psychic phenomena, to abductions, to ghosts, to UFos, to Conspiracy Theroies, to....list is possibly endless. yet other shit that is downright pseudoacience like mental illness myth goes right over your head Odont start about tis issue or it'll take over. i am making a vital point tho....you are so up yourself, i dont tink you could really see any nuance. to do so one must be flexible. you seem rigid in your views. VERY rgid. almost as much as Skin...hehe



Good analysis of what? You have to have data to analyse, and I've never seen any that held up.

me))TEL me what data yo mean??



What do you think the 'official' story is? I think it's that a bunch of pissed off muslims flew a couple of planes into the WTC to wake up the USA. I think it was planned and executed by Al Qaeda, just like the previous attempt of detonating a bomb in the subterranean parking lot was. What conspiracy theory do you subscribe to?

me))))))))well at last you ecpose your position about tis. had to drag it outta ya....!
yur view is soooo naive, truly. the liklihood of a bunch of wnnabe terrorists who happen to actualize one ofthe most dramtic events LIVE IN NEW YORK CITY, in full crystal clear daylight. and MANAGE to completely demolish both towers perfectly plus another building, and later a passport of one of tem is found.....haha, jeesus, you believe tis crap.
on the BBC there was a very convincing docu. showing that Al Qaeda didn't exist. it is a sham, propaganda by the CIA. in fact many alternative news call Al Qaeda 'Al CIA Duh'!........

can you not see....? an tis is what i mean by patterns. it is hard to explian, but seeing pattern requires great flexibility. you cannot b specialized, but see connecting factors across fields of inquiry
.....so, can yo not see that the State has always manufactured an 'ENEMY'???.......no, yes? are you notdiggin that the shole Commie ting was manufactured by propaganda, soas to bfatten up the military industrial complex. for it IS business you know/ and industry. and guess what? business is business. ever dont it. it means business plan, and knowin te market, annnnndddd, wit fo it, EXPANSION. that is the name of the business game. ....for the military induuctrial complex, expansion necessitates an ENEMY. oterwise al tat hightech enormously expensive techologica; warefare shit gets unused and rusty, donit?.....
ask yourself about that big typical big bockbuster americanized event--'9/11'...CUI BONO? WHO BENEFITS. HAVEthe Iraquis benefited...?? i cant see it. recently read the situation in Iraq is DIRE. worse than under Saddam. s who then. i tell you who. the U.S who have gained morepower over its citizens, and have property intersts in Iraq and are close to the 'black gold' and empire building. showing the world what i fukin great bully fuker it is

thats enuf for now.....

Oh, and how much do you get on disability, btw?



I'm trying to understand you, duendy. Your lack of self respect, why you feel conspired against by the govt, mental health organisations pharmaceutical companies, 'The Illuminati', etc. I'm sure considering yourself as somehow involved, and noticed by these large groups, and thinking you have some key knowledge brightens up your day, but you could ry and fill your days with far more constructive things.
dont be so fukin patronizing fool. when i read you and your views and attacks, i thank the lord i AINT you!....now kep it non personal and follow the debate

me))))))))yur view is soooo naive, truly. the liklihood of a bunch of wnnabe terrorists who happen to actualize one ofthe most dramtic events LIVE IN NEW YORK CITY, in full crystal clear daylight. and MANAGE to completely demolish both towers perfectly plus another building, and later a passport of one of tem is found.....haha, jeesus, you believe tis crap.

This is even more ridiculous than your paranormal ideas duendy.

Very briefly, explain to me what really happened and where the numerology comes into it.

This is even more ridiculous than your paranormal ideas duendy.

me))tht reponse ispredicted. go down below--look up the link to 'peudoskeptic' and see the behaviour listed for them. one oftem istheir complte disregard fo Conspiracy Theories. well down, go to the top of the pseudoskeptic class...........let me ask you tis question. no googlin allowed yet. have you heard of Edward Bernays? brielfy summarize for the ladees and genelmen what he was about. tankyou. over to you. here's the microphone

Very briefly, explain to me what really happened and where the numerology comes




into it.

i, andmany others who are not as naive as you, are exploring about this. what really happened?...how far back you wanna go? what really happened? gp red the farewwell speech of President Eisenhowers warning aboutthe military industyrial complex and their overbearing power taking over the State....go read about what is REALLY thought about young men/women/soldiers---ie., just meat/foder

yu people who imagine you are so ...real world, have NO idea just howimmoral are the people you trust in power. it is truly sad to see suc naivity. speaking wid you is like abc
yes. it was an inside job. its purpose? to create masstraim/psychological change. tis actic is a favourite of te Illuminati. also to conjure up an ENEMY post the collapse of their other fabricated enemy, Soviet Union. tese fukers them, GOt ta have an enemy....i know i know, you cant see tis. o dear. wake up

meant to read: "...create mass trauma.."

Actually the planes were called into existance from limbo at the centre of the Bermunda triangle through a ritual done by Illuminati sectants chanting the multiplying table backwards. They got the knowledge from the Great Satan which also is the USA president, the passangers were teleported into planes by alien rays from their UFOs.

This TRUTH I received by a cunning use of shrooms and LSD which allowed me to tune in the secret transmissions which were coming from Uranus secret alien space base. This transmission was addressed to Whitehouse and Cremlin in Moscow.

Actually the planes were called into existance from limbo at the centre of the Bermunda triangle through a ritual done by Illuminati sectants chanting the multiplying table backwards. They got the knowledge from the Great Satan which also is the USA president, the passangers were teleported into planes by alien rays from their UFOs.
Yeah....and the bomb that dropped on Hiroshoma was an upside down dick!

Actually it was a dildo used by the great grandmother of Cthulhu.

This TRUTH I also received by a cunning use of shrooms and LSD which allowed me to tune in the secret transmissions which were coming from Uranus secret alien space base. This transmission was addressed to the sunken city of R'yleh and the great piramids of Giza.

me))tht reponse ispredicted. go down below--look up the link to 'peudoskeptic' and see the behaviour listed for them. one oftem istheir complte disregard fo Conspiracy Theories. well down,
What link? What are you talking about?


go to the top of the pseudoskeptic class...........
Ahead of phlogistician and skinwalker? Awesome! :)


let me ask you tis question. no googlin allowed yet. have you heard of Edward Bernays? brielfy summarize for the ladees and genelmen what he was about. tankyou. over to you. here's the microphone
Nope don't know him. Is this going to be relevant at all? You have a history of pointless tangents duendy.


i, andmany others who are not as naive as you, are exploring about this. what really happened?...how far back you wanna go? what really happened? gp red the farewwell speech of President Eisenhowers warning aboutthe military industyrial complex and their overbearing power taking over the State....go read about what is REALLY thought about young men/women/soldiers---ie., just meat/foder
That's great. What does that have to do with the topic?


yu people who imagine you are so ...real world, have NO idea just howimmoral are the people you trust in power.
Rubbish. I have a very good idea how immoral people in power can be.

You just like to assume that because we don't believe in every stupid conspiracy theory that we actually think that all governments are great. Whatever helps you reinforce your religious-like beliefs...

it is truly sad to see suc naivity.speaking wid you is like abc
yes. it was an inside job. its purpose? to create masstraim/psychological change. tis actic is a favourite of te Illuminati. also to conjure up an ENEMY post the collapse of their other fabricated enemy, Soviet Union. tese fukers them, GOt ta have an enemy....i know i know, you cant see tis. o dear. wake up
The usual believer response. Because I don't believe in unsubstantiated nonsense therefore I am naive :rolleyes:

There seems to be too much evidence supporting the idea that Al Qaeda were behind the attack. You are ignoring this because it is not as interesting as the conspiracy theory.

Duendy I have always thought you a good person who is too ready to believe in the fantastic (and puts too much weight in hallucinogenic experiences). Your opinions on the illuminati and 9/11 only reinforce this.

What link? What are you talking about?

me))))pon the ball yo aint!...remember doooown below, ie/. in pseudoscience? clicked ? wellll, there is a link in one of te well-used threads about wikipedi's definition of 'pseudoskeptik'---well its one of thelinks tat deribe you lot--materialists anyhow. ...and one of the indicators or patterns of you behaviour IS poo pooing about Conspiracy Theory. hence what you are doing is predict-able.

Ahead of phlogistician and skinwalker? Awesome! :)

me))))knew that'd impress ya (rolls everything) ...awwwweesoooome


Nope don't know him. Is this going to be relevant at all? You have a history of pointless tangents duendy.

me)))seee see think-ye-so-smart. well laddio, i aint gonnahold ye hand. i hadto learn. google yerself about Bernays and see what you glean. it is EXTRAORDINARILY relevant for tis subjct yes sirreee. but whetrher yo pick up on that?.....well, aint holdin my breath!


That's great. What does that have to do with the topic?

me))))))theeee most vital thing is to SEE patternss. this is intellegence. i cant learn it you. you got it or yo aint

Rubbish. I have a very good idea how immoral people in power can be.

me))))))))right. so why then do you underestimate their corruption...?!

You just like to assume that because we don't believe in every stupid conspiracy theory that we actually think that all governments are great. Whatever helps you reinforce your religious-like beliefs...

me))))i am bettin you an phlo eetc ain even LOOKEDat te alternative evidence. from what you say i cant see you have. your just aTTACKIN BLIND----AS USUAL

The usual believer response. Because I don't believe in unsubstantiated nonsense therefore I am naive :rolleyes:

me)))like i say. you really aren't providing any challenge. your just accusin

There seems to be too much evidence supporting the idea that Al Qaeda were behind the attack. You are ignoring this because it is not as interesting as the conspiracy theory.

me))))))no. it's cause i seem to see more patterns you seem not to. what can i say?


Duendy I have always thought you a good person who is too ready to believe in the fantastic (and puts too much weight in hallucinogenic experiences). Your opinions on the illuminati and 9/11 only reinforce this.
plenty of peples are seeing through te crap and quationing the official stor
ies about 9/11 and 7/7 and Bali, Madrid etc etc who donot take illegal substances

you see you surprise me. you yourself actually have taken psychedelics yet act like a straight. what tis shows me is that your materialist indoctrine-ation is SO deeply entranched, even our psychedelic experience hasn't opened you up enough for essential insights to see thru it, etc.

i therefore recommed more ---but itelligently. NOT playing video games and 'getting fucked'

just wondering. when was te last tim you had psychedelic experience? what did you take? what was set and setting, and experience like...?

are YOU into death metal? you seem t know alot about it?

Yeah. I'm the author of the pages:

http://www.anus.com/metal

So yeah, I like death metal a lot, but I'm mostly a classical fan at this point, although I listen to REM, Kraftwerk, VNV nation, Brian Eno and My Bloody Valentine obsessively when I do want that "pop" sound.

YETH

You fly fags should drop by wikipedia sometime.

No way! WikiPedia's usually wildly inaccurate.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10/18/wikipedia_quality_problem/

Yeah. I'm the author of the pages:

http://www.anus.com/metal

So yeah, I like death metal a lot, but I'm mostly a classical fan at this point, although I listen to REM, Kraftwerk, VNV nation, Brian Eno and My Bloody Valentine obsessively when I do want that "pop" sound.

YETH
can i quiz you about your interests?

when did you get into it?
why do you think you was attracted to it?
do yo also practice the occult?
what is THE main attractor -about death metal--for you?

you see what i saw of it.....a lot went through my mind.........i saw it was a kind of raw expression, BUT i didn't see real sensuality. by tisi mean i saw fear of the feminine. tis was refelcted in someof te lyrics i heards about raping and abusing women, treating them as mannikins. thati serial-killer talk! seriously

so i am seeing a missing sensuality. ....itslike you'll are stuck in a certain mode and cant cntinue

Althoug i am not a transpsychologist, tis Dr Stan Grof has done much research with people taking LSD, and also does non-psytchedelic research too. apparently tthere are these dimensions one can experience, and one is like death metal.....Grof terms tis level 'basic perinatal 3' because it is connected with birth.......tats what i mean by stuck

No way! WikiPedia's usually wildly inaccurate.

Usually, as in more than half of entries contain absolutely misleading information?

Your article only gave three examples, all on people. The only really convincing evidence was the authoritative stuff that came from the co-founder.

me))))pon the ball yo aint!...remember doooown below, ie/. in pseudoscience? clicked ? wellll, there is a link in one of te well-used threads about wikipedi's definition of 'pseudoskeptik'---well its one of thelinks tat deribe you lot--materialists anyhow. ...and one of the indicators or patterns of you behaviour IS poo pooing about Conspiracy Theory. hence what you are doing is predict-able.
You often say this as if you have won some childish, petty argument points. Yes it is predictable that sceptics are sceptical. Wow you have everyone figured out! :eek:

:p


me)))seee see think-ye-so-smart. well laddio, i aint gonnahold ye hand. i hadto learn. google yerself about Bernays and see what you glean. it is EXTRAORDINARILY relevant for tis subjct yes sirreee. but whetrher yo pick up on that?.....well, aint holdin my breath!
So he is considered the "father of public relations". So again, what does he have to do with 9/11?


me))))))theeee most vital thing is to SEE patternss. this is intellegence. i cant learn it you. you got it or yo aint
No. You are believing in the fantastic wherever possible regardless of the evidence because this makes your life more interesting.


me))))i am bettin you an phlo eetc ain even LOOKEDat te alternative evidence. from what you say i cant see you have. your just aTTACKIN BLIND----AS USUAL
I have read a little of the conspiracy theories regarding 9/11. None of them seemed plausible to me yet. I have never "attacked you blind" duendy. You assume that I haven't seen the amazing evidence just because I am not gullible enough to believe it.

As always, if you have any evidence then present it. You never do you though. Why actually discuss evidence when you can just complain about sceptics all the time.


me)))like i say. you really aren't providing any challenge. your just accusin
You have put nothing forward to challenge! You have just made some vague references to the illuminati. I find the link between death metal bands and the illuminati hard to believe.


me))))))no. it's cause i seem to see more patterns you seem not to. what can i say?
Yes yes you are very smart and can see things that dim witted sceptics cannot.

What 'patterns' ?


plenty of peples are seeing through te crap and quationing the official stor
ies about 9/11 and 7/7 and Bali, Madrid etc etc who donot take illegal substances
The illuminati are behind 7/7 and the bali bombings? Do you have evidence for this? or just patterns?


you see you surprise me. you yourself actually have taken psychedelics yet act like a straight. what tis shows me is that your materialist indoctrine-ation is SO deeply entranched, even our psychedelic experience hasn't opened you up enough for essential insights to see thru it, etc.
i therefore recommed more ---but itelligently. NOT playing video games and 'getting fucked'
I see no reason why I should stop playing computer games.


just wondering. when was te last tim you had psychedelic experience? what did you take? what was set and setting, and experience like...?
The last time was nearly a year ago. I am going to a two day music festival in a week and a half and I may take some then.

I have taken hallucinogens many times but I have never had visuals. I have been very cautious and have never taken much in one go.

You often say this as if you have won some childish, petty argument points. Yes it is predictable that sceptics are sceptical. Wow you have everyone figured out! :eek:

:p

me))))))noooooo, not 'sceptical'...PSEUDOsceptial....pay attention boy. imagine yo got them thumbs movin


So he is considered the "father of public relations". So again, what does he have to do with 9/11?

me))))))so let me quess. you did a google, read that and left?....i sked ypu to study it. then you will see....you slak Ozy yu


No. You are believing in the fantastic wherever possible regardless of the evidence because this makes your life more interesting.

me))))))i see. my life was intersting BEFOREi foundout bout this. actually it isn't particularly innivating to begin realizing your worst enimies are all around you governing your life. wasn't mad on te grin fkers beFORE


I have read a little of the conspiracy theories regarding 9/11. None of them seemed plausible to me yet. I have never "attacked you blind" duendy. You assume that I haven't seen the amazing evidence just because I am not gullible enough to believe it.

me))))))i am also just exploring it, but am not in some limbo like you. you admit teir corruption but cannot see what that corruption is capable of, even whn mounting evidence is there. more and more people are tho seeing thru offical lies.....humpgh, not yo tho

As always, if you have any evidence then present it. You never do you though. Why actually discuss evidence when you can just complain about sceptics all the time.

me))))))not 'sceptics' ..PSEUDOsceptics. you lot are like big fat caesars expectin your serfs to be runnun their arses off fetchin you evidence, whist you just lie on yer fat arses doin sod all


You have put nothing forward to challenge! You have just made some vague references to the illuminati. I find the link between death metal bands and the illuminati hard to believe.

me))))))a link...not consciouly shared BY the folloers of Deeath metal perhaps, generally, but bascially yes. same. but without te vast power structure


Yes yes you are very smart and can see things that dim witted sceptics cannot.

me)))))))got that right. apart from the 'sceptics' bit

What 'patterns' ?

me))))))you have to ask........whatpatterns?.....example: mental illness myth is part of finance for government, is part of military industrial comples is part of social control via 'medication' is part of suppression of illegal drugs is part of antpsychedelic culture is part of materialist myth is part of disrespct for ature is part of mindset which has no meaning and so wants power is prt ofluciferian myth of becoming 'gods' ispart of sacrificing people to get teir goal of complete control ....etc


The illuminati are behind 7/7 and the bali bombings? Do you have evidence for this? or just patterns?

the very date '7/7' has a meaning for the Illuminati....look it up....the blood spattered on Tavistoc House/////has a meaning for them too,....these events are 'secret' mesages to the insiders. secret in 'commas' cause yeah we are talkin about it, but it is o far fethchd not many believe so the Illuminati know tis and is why they are so audacious. cause a dupes like yous

I see no reason why I should stop playing computer games.

me)))))))


The last time was nearly a year ago. I am going to a two day music festival in a week and a half and I may take some then.

me)))))))some what then?

I have taken hallucinogens many times but I have never had visuals. I have been very cautious and have never taken much in one go.
which says to me yu want control. you are fearful of losing control?....i am not advocating 'heroic does'...ala McKenna. i dont mean that. i mean you sound like your not one for allowing wildness. yes? non?

me))))))noooooo, not 'sceptical'...PSEUDOsceptial....pay attention boy. imagine yo got them thumbs movin
Same thing. Psuedosceptic is just a derogatory term for sceptics.


me))))))so let me quess. you did a google, read that and left?....i sked ypu to study it. then you will see....you slak Ozy yu
Answer the question please.



me))))))i see. my life was intersting BEFOREi foundout bout this. actually it isn't particularly innivating to begin realizing your worst enimies are all around you governing your life. wasn't mad on te grin fkers beFORE

A lot of people have a tendency to believe in the fantastic even if it makes them feel less safe.


me))))))i am also just exploring it, but am not in some limbo like you. you admit teir corruption but cannot see what that corruption is capable of, even whn mounting evidence is there. more and more people are tho seeing thru offical lies.....humpgh, not yo tho
Please point me to the mounting evidence.


me))))))not 'sceptics' ..PSEUDOsceptics. you lot are like big fat caesars expectin your serfs to be runnun their arses off fetchin you evidence, whist you just lie on yer fat arses doin sod all

If you make a wild claim you need to back it up. You know this.

I run two or three times a week. My arse aint fat. :p


me)))))))got that right. apart from the 'sceptics' bit
Yes anyone who is sceptical is considered a pseudosceptic. :rolleyes:

What is a sceptic then? Someone who is sceptical for two minutes and then believes everything?

Do not bother pointing me to the Zammit link again. I have read it. He is a deluded fanatic.


me))))))you have to ask........whatpatterns?.....example: mental illness myth is part of finance for government, is part of military industrial comples is part of social control via 'medication' is part of suppression of illegal drugs is part of antpsychedelic culture is part of materialist myth is part of disrespct for ature is part of mindset which has no meaning and so wants power is prt ofluciferian myth of becoming 'gods' ispart of sacrificing people to get teir goal of complete control ....etc
Interesting. I think you are creating some links where there aren't any though.


the very date '7/7' has a meaning for the Illuminati....look it up....the blood spattered on Tavistoc House/////has a meaning for them too,....these events are 'secret' mesages to the insiders. secret in 'commas' cause yeah we are talkin about it, but it is o far fethchd not many believe so the Illuminati know tis and is why they are so audacious. cause a dupes like yous
I'm a dupe? oh :(

If you look hard enough you find significance in every date. You said 9 and 11 were important. Do the illuminati own every number?

The people responsible for the events you mentioned are from extreme muslim groups. The illuminati?

which says to me yu want control. you are fearful of losing control?....i am not advocating 'heroic does'...ala McKenna. i dont mean that. i mean you sound like your not one for allowing wildness. yes? non?
Perhaps.

Same thing. Psuedosceptic is just a derogatory term for sceptics.

me)))))))no it isn't. otherwise there wouldn't be a definition of pseudo_sceptic would there? as wikipedia link definesit. let me remind you. cause YO make up YOUR evieedence as yo go along laddie....A real skeptic is someone who questions everything bu doesn't insult people who have experiences that are unexplainable, and doesn't pretend to know what realty really is--ie., materialisism. for my experience of you, Skin and Plo--who you seem to look up to, you are entrenched materialists, and thats why you come across to real skeptics like fundies

Answer the question please.

me))))))which is my saying you need to understand Bernays to understand 9/11?.....well, you pseudoskepticspoo poo 'conspiracy theories' don't you?........well te story about Edward Bernays, if you READ it...!.....shows you without any question thatconspiracies DO happen. the secret manipulation of peple via propaganda. Bernays' theories were also a fave for te nazi SS Goebbels....read all about IT!.......so contiuin spoonfeedin then. thisis what i mean by patterns. learn to infer, and not be a claaat wid yer 'evidence'. detective work also very much includes clues, inference.......



A lot of people have a tendency to believe in the fantastic even if it makes them feel less safe.

me))))))yeah like you wid yer mterialaist fantasy. i know. it makes yer safe donnit?


Please point me to the mounting evidence.

all te evidence disappeard--ie., the remnants of the WTC ......; Bush put a plugon a public inquiry; firemen and others had heard and seen explosive devices go off; shares went up as tho the event was known beforehand bysecret services; how did the autorities just happen to find a passportfrom one of te blown up terrorists?...; this is a rough list from top of my head. the killer clue is the occult sym olism togther with all the othe consistencies. i will present tem better next. yo lazy arse yo


If you make a wild claim you need to back it up. You know this.

me))))))))what yu dont know is how slack you'll are. wanting others to do te dirty work whilse you rest smug in limboland

I run two or three times a week. My arse aint fat. :p

me))))))))well yer brain is then


Yes anyone who is sceptical is considered a pseudosceptic. :rolleyes:

What is a sceptic then? Someone who is sceptical for two minutes and then believes everything?

me)))))LOOK IT UP!!!!!!!!!!!

Do not bother pointing me to the Zammit link again. I have read it. He is a deluded fanatic.

me)))))))evidence for your slander please


Interesting. I think you are creating some links where there aren't any though.

me)))))))evidence please......!

I'm a dupe? oh :(

If you look hard enough you find significance in every date. You said 9 and 11 were important. Do the illuminati own every number?

me))))))well tey didn't do it on 4/11 did they?.........you do admit numerology exists dont you?

The people responsible for the events you mentioned are from extreme muslim groups. The illuminati?

me)))))from teIlluminati yeah who USE terrorists, as dupes. get it now?

Perhaps.
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmpppppp

ey shaman_.....check this...thought it tailor made for yo
'911 theories news video and photo analysis' http://www.cosmicpenguin.com/911/bradm/911index/
"If you have a hard time believing "Conspiracy Theories". Or think that ewveryone who thinksthat no Boeing hit te Pentagon also believes in Aliens then read this..."Gerald Holmgren Debunking Conspiracy Theorists"
ie., the link's inside the page

Duendy, I've briefly looked at that site and can instantly see problems with the guys interpretations of some of the photos. He completely fails to recognise that the different pics were taken from different heights, so angles of smoke, and jet approach vary with relation to the foreground and background objects. It's the classic parallax effect, that so many conspiracy theorists fail to grasp.

And for the record, I have friends in NYC who saw the whole thing, first hand witnesses, so I have little time for a few weirdos who try and make more out of this event than there was.

Duendy, I've briefly looked at that site and can instantly see problems with the guys interpretations of some of the photos.

mePP i see i see. what we got here? you are some kinda genius who can 'briefly look' and just work out this massive event/problem that others arepinstakingly investigating over longperiods of time...just like that? yeah sure you can....

He completely fails to recognise that the different pics were taken from different heights, so angles of smoke, and jet approach vary with relation to the foreground and background objects. It's the classic parallax effect, that so many conspiracy theorists fail to grasp.

me)))and PHlo, i am interested. what qualifies your 'expert' opinion in this matter? and do you have othe sources that back up what you assert? or is it your SOLE opinion?

And for the record, I have friends in NYC who saw the whole thing, first hand witnesses, so I have little time for a few weirdos who try and make more out of this event than there was.
ha...FDL (falls down laughing...all of a sudden you are depending on EYE-WITNESSES who are your friends???...like for the last god knows how long in othr palaces ytou havecalled eye witness testimony for other major events 'woo woo', 'weirdo' 'lieing', yet NOW, cause tese pople are yor friends their eye-witness is to ..suddenly be trusted?...and hey presto all other eye witness reports that contradict your FRIENDS eye-witness testimony are.....'WEIRDO'...!.do you also see the humour in this or is it just me?

okaaayyyy. try this. and TRY to give it moreof youreffort than 'looked briefly'..? it DOES deserve more you know....sheeeit!

'Reopen 9/11 - Catch the Real Terrorists'
http://www.reopen911.org
"proof of explosions: .....Conclusions_The
"explosive demolition" hypothesis better staisfies tests of repeatability and parsimony and terefore is not "junk science" also open link "David Heller, physicist and practising architect" who seems to meticulously overview the events of 9/11

'More Proof 911 Inside Job - Witnesses to WTC Explosives'
http://www.rense.com/general68/inreproof.htm
"A reporter for USA Today believed that bombs in the buildings brought the buildings down;

The NY Fire Department Chief of Safety stated there were "bombs" and "secondary devices", which casd the explosions in the buildings;

A NYC Firefighter who witnessed attacks stated that it looked like there were bombs in th buildings;

A NYC Firefighter stated "On the last trip
up a bomb went off. We think there was bombs set in the building;

An MSNBC reporter stated that police had found a suspicious device "and they fear it could be something that might lead to another explosion"

cpntinued next post

continud from my last post:

"A New York City Firefighter stated "the south tower...exploded..";

'Articles, government corruption, freedom of spech, truth' http://www.articbeacon.com/articles/article/1518131/29079.htm
"second janitor comes foreward with EYE-WITNESS TESTIMONY of 'Bomb-Like' explosion in North Tower Basement'

'BOMBS INSIDE WTC'
http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/bombs_inside_wtc.html

'New York City Auxiliary Fire Lieutenant Paul Issac Jr. asserted yet again, that 9-11 was an inside job. "I know 9-11 was an inside job. The police know it's an inside job; and the firemen know it too," said Issac ...One of New York's own firefighters says publically that 9-11 couldn't have been the work of Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda, but instead was planned, coordinated and executed by elements within our government...Issac reiterated what a 9-11 survivor told tis journalist...that emergency radios were buzzing with information about bombs being detonated inside the WTC.
Also Issac directly addressed a gag order that has been placed on firemen and police officers in New York. "It's amazing how many people are afraid to talk for fear of retaliation or losing their jobs," said Issac.

Duendy, MY eyewitnesses are reliable people, without any bias, who just told things how they saw them. They made no assertion as the cause, or reason for what they saw, they just said what they saw.

Your 'eyewitnesses' you haven't met in person. You don't kow their character, honesty, or integrity. You aren't even sure if they exist, or whether they are just the imaginings of some internet peddler!

As to the photos, are you saying that CANNOT see the problems with them? They are obvious, duendy, glaringly obvious, and only somebody with an agenda and lies to peddle would wantonly overlook the problems with stringing those pictures together and drawing conclusions!

Explosions in the WTC? No shit. Nearly a full load of jet fuel gets dumped in there, the whole thing goes up. Now, I don't know how experienced you are with fire fighting, but I have had some training, as it was mandatory for one job I held. Simple answer is, stuff explodes in fires. Like fire extinguishers, even, given that they are pressurised vessels. There would have been fire extinguishers all over that building, and each one would have gone off POP! Plus the structure itself would have cracked and buckled, and you would be able to hear that.

Also, just because there as radio traffic about bombs doesn't mean there were bombs. If a building I was working in exploded, I'd assume it was a bomb, and report it as such asap. I wouldn't have thought it was a jet liner! So the emergency services probably got a lot of reports about bombs, and relayed those, before the truth were known.

That's your problem though duendy, you cling to falsehoods long after the truth is known!

BTW, a search of the BBC, Telegraph, and Guardian turn up nothing searching for this 'Paul Isaac' guy. IE, his story has NOT been publishd anywhere reputable! I oinly find the same recyckled story on various woo woo web sites!

As usual duendy, all you have is your bullshit woo woo web sites, your LSD addled paranoia, and your tinfoil hat.

To quote the X-Files to you;

"The Truth is Out There'

ie, you won't find it with your arse stuck to that couch. Get up, get a job, and find out what it's like to be normal , eh?

BTW, what the fuck does this have to with death metal and the illuminati anyway?

This is anoher example of how your addled brain can't stick to a subject duendy! One topic, one subject, no tangents, please.

Duendy, MY eyewitnesses are reliable people, without any bias, who just told things how they saw them. They made no assertion as the cause, or reason for what they saw, they just said what they saw.

me)))))just said what they saw huh? and you believed them huh...hmmmminteresting. so if one of your friends saw a UFO would you believe them then?

Your 'eyewitnesses' you haven't met in person. You don't kow their character, honesty, or integrity. You aren't even sure if they exist, or whether they are just the imaginings of some internet peddler!

me))not sure YOU exist. are you for real dude?


As to the photos, are you saying that CANNOT see the problems with them? They are obvious, duendy, glaringly obvious, and only somebody with an agenda and lies to peddle would wantonly overlook the problems with stringing those pictures together and drawing conclusions!

me))))))my system cant download images as your CCTV camera of a brain knows it!which is why you are so dramatic at this point. can see right thru you phlo

Explosions in the WTC? No shit. Nearly a full load of jet fuel gets dumped in there, the whole thing goes up. Now, I don't know how experienced you are with fire fighting, but I have had some training, as it was mandatory for one job I held. Simple answer is, stuff explodes in fires. Like fire extinguishers, even, given that they are pressurised vessels. There would have been fire extinguishers all over that building, and each one would have gone off POP! Plus the structure itself would have cracked and buckled, and you would be able to hear that.

me))))))so you did a stint as a fireman hey? and tis gives you te expertize to patronize experienced NYC firemen they dont know teir job, and cant tell an exploding fire extinguisher for a bomb? oh right

Also, just because there as radio traffic about bombs doesn't mean there were bombs. If a building I was working in exploded, I'd assume it was a bomb, and report it as such asap. I wouldn't have thought it was a jet liner! So the emergency services probably got a lot of reports about bombs, and relayed those, before the truth were known.

me))))))no shit sherlock

That's your problem though duendy, you cling to falsehoods long after the truth is known!

me)))))))you dont see patterns. are quite dense actually. but your 'cleverness' wont let you see it!

BTW, a search of the BBC, Telegraph, and Guardian turn up nothing searching for this 'Paul Isaac' guy. IE, his story has NOT been publishd anywhere reputable! I oinly find the same recyckled story on various woo woo web sites!

me)))))))have you seen ANY news which is NOT the offical story on big media, including BBC?...errr thats why alternative news exists?

As usual duendy, all you have is your bullshit woo woo web sites, your LSD addled paranoia, and your tinfoil hat.

me)))))))and all you have is your 'consciousness producng brain' grimmin up yer life but yer donna know i

To quote the X-Files to you;

"The Truth is Out There'

ie, you won't find it with your arse stuck to that couch. Get up, get a job, and find out what it's like to be normal , eh?

me)))if you are an advert for 'normal' i would sooner hang meself mate

BTW, what the fuck does this have to with death metal and the illuminati anyway?

me)))))))thick folks.......

This is anoher example of how your addled brain can't stick to a subject duendy! One topic, one subject, no tangents, please.
you know you?....yer grim grim grim....uuughmhhpgh....no humour, no charm, np interest, no flair, no intelligence, no flexibility, no art, no nuttin. relax, allow yourself to let go duuuude. i sense this very hard faced person from your words and beliefs...

The Illuminati was probably a short lived society of free-thinkers and democratic reformers that formed a secret society within freemasonry, using freemasonry as a cover so they could plot to overthrow all the kings in Europe and the Pope. You should be very happy that they succeeded, although they should have gotten rid of the royal family in England, and it's too bad they haven't finished off the Pope yet, but perhaps they are still working on it. I wish them luck.

me)))))))no it isn't. otherwise there wouldn't be a definition of pseudo_sceptic would there? as wikipedia link definesit.
Ok lets look at that wikipedia definition then.
"A pseudoskeptic is an individual who claims to support "reason" and the "scientific worldview", but frequently uses logical fallacies, attempts to silence opponents, and employs various invalid strategies of persuasion. The term is susceptible to misuse as an expression of opprobrium, and is sometimes used against anyone skeptical of the user's favorite idea."

Please point out the logical fallacies that sceptics here have used that justifies them being psuedosceptics. Can you?

More importantly read the second sentence. It sums you up perfectly. :D

Thanks for pointing me to the definition.


let me remind you. cause YO make up YOUR evieedence as yo go along laddie....
What evidence have I made up?


A real skeptic is someone who questions everything bu doesn't insult people who have experiences that are unexplainable
If you are a sceptic and you insult people you are still a sceptic. You are just a rude sceptic.


, and doesn't pretend to know what realty really is--ie., materialisism. for my experience of you, Skin and Plo--who you seem to look up to, you are entrenched materialists, and thats why you come across to real skeptics like fundies
I have made no commentry on what reality is. Who are the 'real' sceptics?

me))))))yeah like you wid yer mterialaist fantasy. i know. it makes yer safe donnit?
No. The world of a materialist is not a safer one at all. No life after death. No psychic powers to help in times of need. No gods to guide people through life. ect.


all te evidence disappeard--ie., the remnants of the WTC ......;
Bush put a plugon a public inquiry;
This would be standard procedure.


firemen and others had heard and seen explosive devices go off;
Of course there were exposions. I have seen no evidence of 'devices' though.

shares went up as tho the event was known beforehand bysecret services;

I have heard that there was some bizzare trading activity before the even't. This does not necessarily mean that the US government or illuminati were responisble. I don't know what the findings for this were.

how did the autorities just happen to find a passportfrom one of te blown up terrorists?...;
I admit that this is unlikely. Not impossible though.


this is a rough list from top of my head. the killer clue is the occult sym olism togther with all the othe consistencies. i will present tem better next. yo lazy arse yo
Ok this is the part that I want to discuss (not US involvement). Where is the occult symbolism?


me))))))))what yu dont know is how slack you'll are. wanting others to do te dirty work whilse you rest smug in limboland
No. That is like me saying "oh it has all been debunked before, google it and find out for yourself. I win!".
You need to back up your wild claims. No excuses.

me))))))))well yer brain is then
Are you 10 years old?

me)))))LOOK IT UP!!!!!!!!!!!
I have looked it up. I even copied the definition into a post for you once! I will post another definition because you don't seem to know what one is.
First one I found "skeptic: someone who habitually doubts accepted beliefs"

me)))))))evidence for your slander please
Oh please. Are you really that deluded duendy? Victor Zammit believes in everything! He has no idea what critical thinking is. A quick glance at his site shows that he strongly supports Uri Geller, EVP, Natasha Demikina and John Edward! :rolleyes:

No I am not going to discuss each of those in this thread (which is supposed to be about the Illuminati)


me)))))))evidence please......!
Oh you're all about evidence. Didn't you say this yesterday? "oh you lot. your middle nameis 'show me ze evidence'" . lol


you have to ask........whatpatterns?.....example: mental illness myth is part of finance for government, is part of military industrial comples is part of social control via 'medication' is part of suppression of illegal drugs is part of antpsychedelic culture is part of materialist myth is part of disrespct for ature is part of mindset which has no meaning and so wants power is prt ofluciferian myth of becoming 'gods' ispart of sacrificing people to get teir goal of complete control ....etc
I actually meant, what patterns regarding the illuminati but anyway...

You are linking mental illness to a 'disrespect for nature' ? Nonsense.

me))))))well tey didn't do it on 4/11 did they?.........you do admit numerology exists dont you?
I think numerology is rubbish.

The bali bombings were on 12-10-2002. What is the significance here?

So the illiminati have significant numbers 9 11 7 12 10 :rolleyes:

me)))))from teIlluminati yeah who USE terrorists, as dupes. get it now?
You have not shown this though.

Ok lets look at that wikipedia definition then.
"A pseudoskeptic is an individual who claims to support "reason" and the "scientific worldview", but frequently uses logical fallacies, attempts to silence opponents, and employs various invalid strategies of persuasion. The term is susceptible to misuse as an expression of opprobrium, and is sometimes used against anyone skeptical of the user's favorite idea."

Please point out the logical fallacies that sceptics here have used that justifies them being psuedosceptics. Can you?

me)))))yes. but i'd tell you and it'd go ovr your head. nuthin sinks in. same with phlo. like floggin a dead 'orse

More importantly read the second sentence. It sums you up perfectly. :D

me)))))))all you and your mentors do is ridicule, insult, strutt around thinkin yo know it all. it is obvious for anyone with intelligence to see.....dahlin

Thanks for pointing me to the definition.

me))))pleasure

What evidence have I made up?

me)))te whole schebangel. your very materialist anchor's a myth. start wid that. that is what is pullin you down from proper exploration of reality

If you are a sceptic and you insult people you are still a sceptic. You are just a rude sceptic.

me)))in YOUR case, a rude PSEUDOsceptic o'course


I have made no commentry on what reality is. Who are the 'real' sceptics?

me)))))))read Dr Mack. let m guess...yer about to slag him off....right? yawwwwn, right.

No. The world of a materialist is not a safer one at all. No life after death. No psychic powers to help in times of need. No gods to guide people through life. ect.

me))))your god is materialstic science. you dont have to think out of the box, and be creative. you just believe whatthey tells ya.....however ludicrous, and grim

This would be standard procedure.

me))))))rigfht so you are privvy to what 'standard procedure' is afteran unprecedented attack on NYC killin thousands of people are you..........you lot. comedians. even funnier cause yer straight faces mean it


Of course there were exposions. I have seen no evidence of 'devices' though.

me)))and errr who are you? chief investigator of something. this isreality dude, NOT video game

I have heard that there was some bizzare trading activity before the even't. This does not necessarily mean that the US government or illuminati were responisble. I don't know what the findings for this were.

me))you dont know a lot, but blag yer way thru like yer mates. itis funny this......carry on

I admit that this is unlikely. Not impossible though.

mePPPPoh seet eccles cakes. you go from doubtin a UFO seer, with pic and video, to beliving in some absurd story about finding a blown-up terrorists passport from a blown up plane.. hahaha...., carry on

Ok this is the part that I want to discuss (not US involvement). Where is the occult symbolism?

me)))))))find it!........google 'occult symbolism 9/11' and see what yer come up wirth


No. That is like me saying "oh it has all been debunked before, google it and find out for yourself. I win!".
You need to back up your wild claims. No excuses.

m))like i am gonna run my arse off for you slackers...?

Are you 10 years old?

me)))))))yes. same age as you. snap


I have looked it up. I even copied the definition into a post for you once! I will post another definition because you don't seem to know what one is.
First one I found "skeptic: someone who habitually doubts accepted beliefs"

me))really hung up on this aren't ya?

Oh please. Are you really that deluded duendy? Victor Zammit believes in everything! He has no idea what critical thinking is. A quick glance at his site shows that he strongly supports Uri Geller, EVP, Natasha Demikina and John Edward! :rolleyes:

me))))))and you are an exmaple of critical thinkin is yer, passport man?

No I am not going to discuss each of those in this thread (which is supposed to be about the Illuminati)

me)))))ooooooooooo DON@T then


Oh you're all about evidence. Didn't you say this yesterday? "oh you lot. your middle nameis 'show me ze evidence'" . lol

me))))))yeah. see what ya like when someone asks YOU for evidence. you shit yerself



I actually meant, what patterns regarding the illuminati but anyway...

me))the patterns ARE to do with them. see you just dont seee patterns. for me seeing patterns IS Intelligence

You are linking mental illness to a 'disrespect for nature' ? Nonsense.

me)))you dont understand. i am saying that the materialistic scientific belief disrespects all species, people, and Nature

I think numerology is rubbish.

me)))))))yes. that's how you begin. straight away you condemn. THAt aint learning. and tis is what i mean about beating a dead horse. you lot hafe already made yer minds UP pseudosceptics.........!

The bali bombings were on 12-10-2002. What is the significance here?

me))must admit i haven't looked about tem much yet. have focussed on 9/11 and 7/7. twas the latter event which reinspired me to look into about all this

So the illiminati have significant numbers 9 11 7 12 10 :rolleyes:

me)))ohhhh verrry scientific........rolls everything

You have not shown this though.
you wouldn't see it if i had. you are blind to serious inquiry!

No duendy, I was not a fireman, I just worked in an environment where firefighting training or first aid was mandatory, so I did both courses. Real life experience, you know?

Would I trust the word of my friends if they said they saw a UFO? Well, if it was caught on camera, and witnessed by as many people as 9/11, sure!

You completely dodge all my points duendy. The aforementioned site I worked at had note pads by the phone, for recording bomb threats (we had them from time to time) and tick boxes we were supposed to fill by asking the caller questions, like incendiary, or explosive device, do you want to claim responsibility for a known organisation, what time with the bomb go off, etc. There wasn't a section about crashing airliners! So experienced firefighters hearing radio chatter about bombs called in by the trapped people in the WTC, and hearing bangs themselves, and having been trained to deal with bombs, will think 'bomb', it's human nature.

And as usual duendy, you do nothing to add credibility to your position, don't add any insight, perspective or fact, and admit you can't even see the pictures that this guy reckons show something wrong is happening! You are a gullible fool duendy.

It's not about 'seeing patterns' duendy, what you do, is convolve trivia. There is a difference!

No duendy, I was not a fireman, I just worked in an environment where firefighting training or first aid was mandatory, so I did both courses. Real life experience, you know?

me))))))hAH... sos you wasn't even a bit part as a fireman yet know how to tell professional firemen their job?...yip, thas phlo fo ya

Would I trust the word of my friends if they said they saw a UFO? Well, if it was caught on camera, and witnessed by as many people as 9/11, sure!

me))))))no, deaf as well as blind. your FRIENDS, NOT the whole of NYfukin city!

You completely dodge all my points duendy. The aforementioned site I worked at had note pads by the phone, for recording bomb threats (we had them from time to time) and tick boxes we were supposed to fill by asking the caller questions, like incendiary, or explosive device, do you want to claim responsibility for a known organisation, what time with the bomb go off, etc. There wasn't a section about crashing airliners! So experienced firefighters hearing radio chatter about bombs called in by the trapped people in the WTC, and hearing bangs themselves, and having been trained to deal with bombs, will think 'bomb', it's human nature.

me)))))what do YOU kow about human nature? not much from my xperience of your narrow mind......and i dodge all YUOURpoints? that is rich..........buthe point is yet agin you patronize peoples judgment. your version patronizes the professionals report that people werr buzzing with bomb reports at time of 9/11 event and how this evidence fits a P A T T E R N of other related reports. ALL pointing to INSIDE JOB!!

And as usual duendy, you do nothing to add credibility to your position, don't add any insight, perspective or fact, and admit you can't even see the pictures that this guy reckons show something wrong is happening! You are a gullible fool duendy.

me)))))))you the gullible one, smug an not
knowing it/comedy. for your very foundation--materialistic science is the epitome of gullibility. this is why you cow tow to AUTHORITY. anything they say you believe dont you? tell me one ting you donna believe theya tell yo..??? well?

It's not about 'seeing patterns' duendy, what you do, is convolve trivia. There is a difference!

but i can see you are not open to SEEING patterns. MY intelligence shows me this. so i tel you. and i see you are as blind as a post. as i said before , your claim to fame is as an insult-machine. this is typical of materialists,which are after all of same ilk as fundamentalist religionists. they have their 'Lake of Fire'--you lot try and ridicule your opponents from serious debate. but the only reall ridiculous ones are you who show your ignorance agin and agin via extreme narrow-mindedness and absurd explain-aways

MY intelligence shows me this.
http://piparmetra.net/forums/images/smiles/huh.gif http://piparmetra.net/forums/images/smiles/lmao.gif

http://piparmetra.net/forums/images/smiles/huh.gif http://piparmetra.net/forums/images/smiles/lmao.gif
hows yer nirvana and bliss goin?......(FDL)

Never been better, oh funny thing!

Ok lets look at that wikipedia definition then.
"A pseudoskeptic is an individual who claims to support "reason" and the "scientific worldview", but frequently uses logical fallacies, attempts to silence opponents, and employs various invalid strategies of persuasion. The term is susceptible to misuse as an expression of opprobrium, and is sometimes used against anyone skeptical of the user's favorite idea."

WikiPedia is not a source respected by educated people.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10/18/wikipedia_quality_problem/

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2005-11-29-wikipedia-edit_x.htm

me)))))yes. but i'd tell you and it'd go ovr your head. nuthin sinks in. same with phlo. like floggin a dead 'orse
So you can't then. Whenever challenged you just make excuses.


me)))))))all you and your mentors do is ridicule, insult, strutt around thinkin yo know it all. it is obvious for anyone with intelligence to see.....dahlin
If you can't handle people with opposing views who don't believe everything you say then you probably should find a different forum.


me)))te whole schebangel. your very materialist anchor's a myth. start wid that. that is what is pullin you down from proper exploration of reality
The 'whole schebangel'? Pathetic response.


me)))in YOUR case, a rude PSEUDOsceptic o'course

This is like talking to a child. Did you even read what I wrote? You are just resorting to name calling.


me)))))))read Dr Mack. let m guess...yer about to slag him off....right? yawwwwn, right
Again you are trying to get petty argument points because you can predict I am not going to agree with you. Wow.

And no I wouldn't call Dr Mack a sceptic.


me))))your god is materialstic science. you dont have to think out of the box, and be creative. you just believe whatthey tells ya.....however ludicrous, and grim
Why must every discussion with you be about materialism? Are you capable of talking about anything else?


me))))))rigfht so you are privvy to what 'standard procedure' is afteran unprecedented attack on NYC killin thousands of people are you..........you lot. comedians. even funnier cause yer straight faces mean it
Are you a complete idiot? Matters of national security are always investigated as secretly as possible.


me)))and errr who are you? chief investigator of something. this isreality dude, NOT video game
Two planes flew into the WTC and you are shocked that there were explosions. Conspiracy! Illuminati!


me))you dont know a lot, but blag yer way thru like yer mates. itis funny this......carry on
More childish comments. You should be embarrassed by these responses duendy.


mePPPPoh seet eccles cakes. you go from doubtin a UFO seer, with pic and video, to beliving in some absurd story about finding a blown-up terrorists passport from a blown up plane.. hahaha...., carry on

Wait a second. I did not say I believed the story regarding the passport. I have made no judgement either way.


me)))))))find it!........google 'occult symbolism 9/11' and see what yer come up wirth

You make a claim but wont back it up. Same old excuses duendy...


m))like i am gonna run my arse off for you slackers...?
Pathetic.


me)))))))yes. same age as you. snap
You are making a fool of yourself.


me))really hung up on this aren't ya
Another sad response.


me))))))and you are an exmaple of critical thinkin is yer, passport man?
Which I said was unlikey....


me))))))yeah. see what ya like when someone asks YOU for evidence. you shit yerself
What are you talking about? I responded your requests. You are the one making excuses and resorting to name calling.


me))the patterns ARE to do with them. see you just dont seee patterns. for me seeing patterns IS Intelligence
Could these patterns be the result of too many mushrooms?


me)))you dont understand. i am saying that the materialistic scientific belief disrespects all species, people, and Nature
Actually i don't think it does. Anyway so you have linked this disrespect to a "mindset which has no meaning and so wants power" which is "prt ofluciferian myth of becoming 'gods' " which is linked to "sacrificing people to get teir goal of complete control" These are your fantastic 'patterns'. You are deluded.

I would ask for evidence of this but you would just tell me to find it myself.


me)))))))yes. that's how you begin. straight away you condemn. THAt aint learning. and tis is what i mean about beating a dead horse. you lot hafe already made yer minds UP pseudosceptics.........!

No. I have read about numerology and found it to be rubbish. You are trying to imply that I instantly dismissed it without knowing about it therefore I am a psuedosceptic. This is nonsense. Try again.


me)))ohhhh verrry scientific........rolls everything
Don't you get it? With numerolgy you can find significance in most dates if you try hard enough.


you wouldn't see it if i had. you are blind to serious inquiry!
What serious inquiry? You have made grand claims, wont back them up and you just ramble on about close minded materialists.

These responses have gotten quite large duendy. Save us both some time and answer this - Do you have any relevent discussion or evidence regarding death metal and the Illuminati?

Duendy is so paranoid and delusional that it goes WAY beyond pathetic!

For example, her "Illuminati" are very secret and want to stay hidden from view, right? Yet they use numerology (and other such bunk!) to reveal their presence to the world.

Yeah. Real good logical thinking there, Duendy!! (What an idiot!) You defeat your own purpose every time you speak.

So you can't then. Whenever challenged you just make excuses.


If you can't handle people with opposing views who don't believe everything you say then you probably should find a different forum.


The 'whole schebangel'? Pathetic response.


This is like talking to a child. Did you even read what I wrote? You are just resorting to name calling.


Again you are trying to get petty argument points because you can predict I am not going to agree with you. Wow.

And no I wouldn't call Dr Mack a sceptic.


Why must every discussion with you be about materialism? Are you capable of talking about anything else?


Are you a complete idiot? Matters of national security are always investigated as secretly as possible.


Two planes flew into the WTC and you are shocked that there were explosions. Conspiracy! Illuminati!


More childish comments. You should be embarrassed by these responses duendy.


Wait a second. I did not say I believed the story regarding the passport. I have made no judgement either way.


You make a claim but wont back it up. Same old excuses duendy...


Pathetic.


You are making a fool of yourself.


Another sad response.


Which I said was unlikey....


What are you talking about? I responded your requests. You are the one making excuses and resorting to name calling.


Could these patterns be the result of too many mushrooms?


Actually i don't think it does. Anyway so you have linked this disrespect to a "mindset which has no meaning and so wants power" which is "prt ofluciferian myth of becoming 'gods' " which is linked to "sacrificing people to get teir goal of complete control" These are your fantastic 'patterns'. You are deluded.

I would ask for evidence of this but you would just tell me to find it myself.


No. I have read about numerology and found it to be rubbish. You are trying to imply that I instantly dismissed it without knowing about it therefore I am a psuedosceptic. This is nonsense. Try again.


Don't you get it? With numerolgy you can find significance in most dates if you try hard enough.


What serious inquiry? You have made grand claims, wont back them up and you just ramble on about close minded materialists.

These responses have gotten quite large duendy. Save us both some time and answer this - Do you have any relevent discussion or evidence regarding death metal and the Illuminati?
kiddio, you wouldn't know relevant discussion if it zappen yer in te ace. check your responses above. they are ad hominem text book exAMPLES. how do you think you can haveany kind of intelligent discussion with anyone when:
a) you show other no respect, and
b) aren't even willing to openmindedly EXPLORE whats being discussed?

ie., you have already made yer mind UP....as usual

kiddio, you wouldn't know relevant discussion if it zappen yer in te ace.
You couldn't even answer the question!


check your responses above. they are ad hominem text book exAMPLES. how do you think you can haveany kind of intelligent discussion with anyone when:

I am guilty of no more ad hominem than you are. Nearly all of my comments are aimed at your arguments not you. Do you even know what ad hominem is?


a) you show other no respect, and
I have shown you plenty of respect in the past duendy. I have had many discussions with you where others would not bother. The tone in my arguments now is merely a reflection of yours.

Perhaps you should read some of your own comments. You are being a hypocrite.


b) aren't even willing to openmindedly EXPLORE whats being discussed?

ie., you have already made yer mind UP....as usual
What exploring?!! You are clinging to a conspiracy fantasy and you are dismissive to anyone who questions it.

I have asked you for some evidence of the illuminati, 9/11 numerology and information regarding the bali bombings and you have just made excuses.

You are the one being close minded.


So again - Do you have any relevent discussion or evidence regarding death metal and the Illuminati?

So again - Do you have any relevent discussion or evidence regarding death metal and the Illuminati?
(s)he has in his/her own way.
Please understand that such people as solid evidence see such things that you and I would never claim to be such, for instance - visions seen during intoxication.
I advise that you quit this "discussion", because it's a dead end from the start. Rational and logical as well as evidence has a different meaning for these people.
I base my advice on the experience I got during a field work in a psychiatric clinic.

For duendy: Visions and other such things can be used as evidence, but not when dealing with the outer world (if you can distinguish), it can be evidence when researching your own psyche (mind).

see them hands...
look at them...
teres more than thumbs...

now...

see them fingers?
yes?
good.
now....type this. ready?
sure?
good.
type @ google...SLAP pay attention!
....type at google:
'9/11 occult symbolism'

cauuse you know tat thing in front of you?
that is called a computer.
yes, that's right.
you can find info on it
just from a few taps on the keys.
yeeees. isn't it maaaarvelous

let me know what yer findwont you?
gooooood......there's agood boy

have a nice day now, ya hear

So you can now see clearly, shaman, that duendy has another understanding of what evidence is, i.e., any crap that's put on the internet by anybody equals as sound evidence.

So you can now see clearly, shaman, that duendy has another understanding of what evidence is, i.e., any crap that's put on the internet by anybody equals as sound evidence.
yoou mean like the ones that tell you your a computer head and can have instant nirvana...?

Why such a question, oh, silly one?
Nevermind, I know :) But I also know your brain and that my answer would not be considered, because you already know THE TRUTH from your intoxicated visions.

Why such a question, oh, silly one?
Nevermind, I know :) But I also know your brain and that my answer would not be considered, because you already know THE TRUTH from your intoxicated visions.
well at least yo have the insight to put it in caps!....thanks

see them hands...
look at them...
teres more than thumbs...

now...

see them fingers?
yes?
good.
now....type this. ready?
sure?
good.
type @ google...SLAP pay attention!
....type at google:
'9/11 occult symbolism'

cauuse you know tat thing in front of you?
that is called a computer.
yes, that's right.
you can find info on it
just from a few taps on the keys.
yeeees. isn't it maaaarvelous

let me know what yer findwont you?
gooooood......there's agood boy

have a nice day now, ya hear
So that's a no.

Duendy you are clearly gullible and ready to believe in anything.

I will leave the thread there unless by some miracle you manage to add something intelligent or relevant. Either one would be fine.

I would like to talk about death metal. It's one of my favorite forms of music, after classical, Kraftwerk and black metal :)

So that's a no.

Duendy you are clearly gullible and ready to believe in anything.

I will leave the thread there unless by some miracle you manage to add something intelligent or relevant. Either one would be fine.
laaaazy-fingered/minded cop out

I would like to talk about death metal. It's one of my favorite forms of music, after classical, Kraftwerk and black metal :)

http://www.anus.com/etc/prozakhistan/autoexec.htm
WHY))))))? is it?.....for me it is sooo UGLY. unsexy. noisy, vile, evil shit.

i a really curious t know when, how and why ou got into it? what it does for you? do you see any sexiness in it? if so what?
i might hate it, but am interested to know why people choose it as a favourite music. i cant imagneanything worse tha having a kid into this 'music'. i wud move out!

He likes it because he's a member of the Illuminati, and he's very much into blood sacrifice of course. You did kind of answer that question yourself in this thread.

My favourite death metal band is Nile, ancient egyptian book of the dead themed death rituals, etc., great sounding music! You can listen to samples here: http://www.myspace.com/nile
Emperor and Immortal are my favourite black metal bands,
as I've heard Emperor has been reunited and will perform at the Wacken 2006 festival!!

My favourite death metal band is Nile, ancient egyptian book of the dead themed death rituals, etc., great sounding music! You can listen to samples here: http://www.myspace.com/nile
Emperor and Immortal are my favourite black metal bands,
as I've heard Emperor has been reunited and will perform at the Wacken 2006 festival!!
ahaaaaaaaaa)))))))))NOW i Understand!

http://piparmetra.net/outer_realms/images/her/91.jpg

Who else likes Detsörgsekälf?

Their new album "A.B.B.A." (Apocalyptic Blasphemed Battle Anthems) is gonna rock!

Balfabar Nosugref the Almighty - Torturous shrieks from the depths of hell
Hellratchet - Axe-shredder & terrifying growls
Mörksjäl - Axe-wielding maniac & necrowhore screeches
Niloc the Omnipotent - Demonic bass & keyboards ov doooom!
Necrotron the Digitizer of Man - Drums and heart-crushing blastbeats

The scariest thing is, they're from Canada.

My favourite metal video is of Satyricon "Mother North"
The uncensored edition of course :)
There a christian girl is first converted into pagan by nordic warriors, then she dances naked, then is sacrifaced.
And the song itself is a true black metal hymn - in every note and growl!

http://piparmetra.net/pagrabs/sat.jpg



Mother north - How can they sleep while their beds are Burning?
Mother north - Your fields are bleeding

Memories...The invisible wounds
Pictures that enshrine your throne (Gone?)

A Future benighted still they are blind
Pigeonhearted beings of flesh and blood
Keeps closing their eyes for the dangers that Threat...Ourselves and our nature
And that is why
They all enrage me

Sometimes in the dead of the night I mesmerize my soul
Sights and visions prophecies and horror
They all come in one

Mother north - United we stand (Together we walk)
Phantom north - I'll be there when you hunt them down

freaky dark stuff!.......te lyrics that i remember from the docu. were a man growling. subtitles say he is growlin about raping a 'woman' who is--to him--a puppet for his pleaure....really really violent

so what do you tink this stuff does for you?
do you see itas not-serious?.......what?

http://obeast.ubermetal.com/Pics/Bandpics/Detsorgeskalf/2.jpg
What do you mean it's not serious?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/geirarve/1054789624_abbathsurfer.jpg

It's good music, good, powerful music. Why do people listen to music? :D
Of course there are bands that are great, and those that are pure shit.


spidergoat: :D :D

It's good music, good, powerful music. Why do people listen to music? :D
Of course there are bands that are great, and those that are pure shit.


spidergoat: :D :D
but its not good music. it is horrednously annoying growling. there isno even chant potential

listen i am not verse to growly vocals....love real growling black music...old and young....canlisten and get into the weirdest chants.....but THAT. not only is it ugly to listen to, and will make plants die, it isn't in any way sensual........as in sexy, allowing the Feminine...........it is a howl from lost souls

That's your subjective view. And not my subjective view.

Ugly is the new black.

... weirdest chants.....but THAT. and will make plants die, it isn't in any way sensual........Feminine...........it is a howl from lost souls

I usually have a hard time understanding your posts but it seems like your refering to Cradle Of Filth? (joke)
Currently I'm listening to a lot of Dimmu and Cradle Of Filth, I started listening to Deicide and Cannibal Corpse when I was in my teens. Is there some where I can download that Satyricon "Mother North" video Free? I need to expand my musical horizons.

That's your subjective view. And not my subjective view.
i am curiouser,,,,have you ever seen any black people into that...'music'....?

i am curiouser,,,,have you ever seen any black people into that...'music'....?

Yeah, fairly well represented considering the demographic.

Yeah, fairly well represented considering the demographic.
do not believe you. where's the evidence?

i am curiouser,,,,have you ever seen any black people into that...'music'....?
There are maybe about 10 africans living in my country! :D
I don't see them at all, save for an occasional tourist.

There are maybe about 10 africans living in my country! :D
I don't see them at all, save for an occasional tourist.
errrrrrrr i see avatar....and does ONE of those Africans get into the shit yo are into?

Now, now, duendy, I've told you about critical thinking,
such loaded questions are a cheap trick for only an unexperienced person to fall into.


A loaded question is a question with a false or questionable presupposition, and it is "loaded" with that presumption. The question "Have you stopped beating your wife?" presupposes that you have beaten your wife prior to its asking, as well as that you have a wife. If you are unmarried, or have never beaten your wife, then the question is loaded.

Since this example is a yes/no question, there are only the following two direct answers:

1. "Yes, I have stopped beating my wife", which entails "I was beating my wife."
2. "No, I haven't stopped beating my wife", which entails "I am still beating my wife."

Thus, either direct answer entails that you have beaten your wife, which is, therefore, a presupposition of the question. So, a loaded question is one which you cannot answer directly without implying a falsehood or a statement that you deny. For this reason, the proper response to such a question is not to answer it directly, but to either refuse to answer or to reject the question.

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/loadques.html

if your an advertfor 'critical thinkin' which you keep harpin on about.....i already told you--i'll pass te offer, ta
/
i dont know....as ya a simple question and yer synapases are all in a tizzy

it was a simple follow on. listen.....i had asked if ou knew any black pople into that evil racket you term 'music'. you come back wid teres 10 Africans in your country. i ask if you know ONE of tem isinto your music

simple. noone needs a critical tinkin seminar. yes or no wil do?

This time you asked the question differently. If you fail to see it, then your thinking is really a bit confused.

I know no african in person.

This time you asked the question differently. If you fail to see it, then your thinking is really a bit confused.

I know no african in person.
M Y thinkin is confuuused???..haha

listen, i am gonna sk you again...sloooooowly. ready?

i have not asked you if you KNOW any Africans, but IF you know of any who are int death metal...? you know like seeing any black faces at the horrendous death-gatherings you must attend every now and then?....jus that. dont piggin complicate it

I saw one once some three years ago, but he is a local communist partisan (sitting in prison now) and the local neonazis had beaten him out of there (I don't know why he had come, because a famous neonazi band from Estonia had come) so it was obvious that african communists would not be welcomed.

But your question is still stupid, because that's like 1 african on 250 000 latvians. The chances that one of them likes metal are pretty slim. Besides those niggers are more into rap, hip-hop and that sort of crap.

Here are some mini pictures from a local 'Black Death Night 2005'

http://truemetal.lv/gallery/thumbs/160/7981.jpg http://truemetal.lv/gallery/thumbs/160/8058.jpg http://truemetal.lv/gallery/thumbs/160/7975.jpg

I saw one once some three years ago, but he is a local communist partisan (sitting in prison now) and the local neonazis had beaten him out of there (I don't know why he had come, because a famous neonazi band from Estonia had come) so it was obvious that african communists would not be welcomed.

But your question is still stupid, because that's like 1 african on 250 000 latvians. The chances that one of them likes metal are pretty slim. Besides those niggers are more into rap, hip-hop and that sort of crap.
"niggers...?? oh...surprise surprise, you are racist. well--fall offa my chair!...bet ya also anti semitic as well right? and believe in mental illness, hey critical thinker. i KNOWyou do. your made of glass booooy

watc out for the music you listen to. it can be lethal, as your character reveals

hehehe, you're really too easy to manipulate, almost boringly easy :D

oh, btw, fyi, nigger is not considered a bad word here, because there never has been a slavery here and never have been any africans too,
I had the name in my geography book and was told that niggers live in africa when at school.
just playing with your western perception and horror to metal,
Nile is a great band though, you should listen to it

ciao

errr your school wheres ya does your errr critical finkin is actually racist....??

and word of warning. ifs ya ever comes to UK, and you meet a black dude, dont go callin him a nigger, orelse he may cease the electrical activity of the one an only 'avatar'


shit. what didya have to go an tell him fo ...sheeeit!

In some countries, the word means little in part because of no mixed racial history, and in part because it resembles the local word for "black."

Here, it's different.

You all seem very anti conspiracy theory
how about some conspiracy fact? "extraordinary rendition" anyone?
It's in the public eye, in the main stream media, and demonstrates some evidence of the type of hypocracy perpitrated by the US and UK government.

When it comes to light that this kind of thing is going on, it does make you wonder what else is going on. I think it is healthy to keep a vigilante eye, I think "conspiracy theory" plays a part in this.

Sure theres a lot of paranoid crap about, but I heard rumours of extraordinary rendition before it made the head lines and no doubt some people dismissed it as conspiracy theory, maybe still do.

Before you can have a coup a revolution or a mutiny, you need to have a conspiracy. History is rife with them. Written history can also be accused of being the most obvious proof of conspiracy, as it is only the winners, or those in power that get to write the history books, hardly objective.

Cant you find some common ground Duendy, and Avatar plus others, there must be something that you can agree stinks of governement cover up.

And dont moan at me for going off topic because this thread devotes more time to conspiracy theory than to Death Metal, but for the record I dont like it. Theres this stuff I like called Third Eye Corporation, which is about as nasty as my music taste goes (no illuminati link intended)

I don't need conspiracy theories. I've seen how our values have declined, and the crowd has taken over. Any conspiracies - Jews, Masons, Nazis, Scientologists - are an inconsequential part of the equation. Open eyes.

The crowd is led, who is leading the crowd?
Open your eyes!!

The crowd is led, who is leading the crowd?
Open your eyes!!
ey Ez....not sure what you mean. you seem to suggest i am not for conspiracytheory? i am actually. i am well aware howpower elites devize social control via dogma, etc etc.....thing is somanypeople believe authority no mater what. this is part of their indoctrination TO DO, but te seem not aware.........how can we wake em up. any ideas????

I was refering to the post by android, in terms of "conspiracy threory" that is just a label.

In terms of persuading people, I suspect your preaching to the converted, you just need to find some common ground, for instance that speach by Pinter was great reading.

I was refering to the post by android, in terms of "conspiracy threory" that is just a label.

In terms of persuading people, I suspect your preaching to the converted, you just need to find some common ground, for instance that speach by Pinter was great reading.
ya cant find common ground if othe wont stand on it....for me te most important insight is seeng patterns.....this requires multidisiplinary research.....also, not being fearful of seeming weird, EVE to yourself. tis means to research about mental illness scam so as to step out of the myth...........many pople are of course self-censoring. tis has been drummed into them since school. it stops them properly exploring places they my not.....example, many people have computers. compters could be termed the second Renaissance regarding the opning up of world knowledges from all mindsets, ges, etc etc, from te ordinry to the exceedlingly weird. yet how many put it o use? not many i a guessing.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hereford/worcs/4535112.stm

So duendy, what have you to say about this man? Do you still think mental illness is a lie?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hereford/worcs/4535112.stm

So duendy, what have you to say about this man? Do you still think mental illness is a lie?
h yes, the stereotypified 'mad shizo' sensatonalist reporting. tis is what people, daignosed wit 'schizophrenia' dread. because it fears people towards the term. and this IS the stigm

some tings for you to consider communist hmster:
we ar NOTsaying that some people do not have experiences no usually the 'norm', ie., visions, voices etc. what we RE saying i that tat i a natruao PROCESS which is misuhderstood by a culure which pathologizes and then drugs it wit very damaging toxic anti-psychotics which block natrul healing

when a sensitive vulnerable person gets into the hands of themntal healthestblishment they lose teir rights and become intitutionalized, nd abusd thru coercive drug treatments etc

Also there IS the myth itsel. the tigma. o thatwhen a peron has visions etc...it is seen by this society as a diease and also shameful.....itis like the church ould have clased it, as eithr holy...-not usual--and damned. if you were to relly believe you were posessed by the dvil ti belief wuld have an efect

but the botom line CH...is tis. there isNO evidence for a biologcal disease called 'schizophrenia'.......the 'damge' thy may lter see i due to th highly toxic drugs

I know that Dr BUAGHMAN who is one th major spokespople expoing th mental illness myth has askd very top plyers in the field to PROVIDE MDICAL EVIDENCE FOR SO-CALLD MENTAL disease and they cannot. HENCE IT IS NOT a disease. it IS somthing tis culure doesn't understand. yes. but mdical disease? No

duendy, who's 'we'?

It's begging for a schizophrenia pun.

schizophrenia is one split personality, not many personalities in one human

schizophrenia is split one personality, not many personalities in one
even the sentence doesn't make any sense lad

even the sentence doesn't make any sense lad

You are the least capable to judge others syntax or semantics.

poor thing..

schizophrenia - ex.: thinking is not attached to action, digs a grave for yesterday's newspaper and calls a priest to come over for the sermon

many personalities - two or more unsplit personalities in one brain

You are the least capable to judge others syntax or semantics.
yes> you can type well> but what yo type is ceeeeraaap!

poor thing..

schizophrenia - ex.: thinking is not attached to action, digs a grave for yesterday's newspaper and calls a priest to come over for the sermon

many personalities - two or more unsplit personalities in one brain
'schizophrenia' is NOT a biologial disease. NO test exists to say it is. Thus any definition OF it is purely subjective...non-specific

I'm no doctor, but at least I'm having a course in diagnostic psychiatry and have done field work in a psychiatric clinic, final exam next month.

Schizophrenia means that one personality has split into many smaller things and no one thing can control some other thing. Can usually be detected from observing inadequate reaction to outer events.

I think this is as easy of an explanation as it can get.

There is evidence that it's at least partly biological, i.e., it runs in the family.
If both mother and father are schizophrenic, then there is a 50% chance that the child will become one too, if one parent, then the chance was drastically smaller, I think it was only some 5%.

But the disorder isn't inherited as such, rather the mechanism is. It is dormant and remains dormant if isn't triggered. If that mechanism is started depends on the life experiences of the child, i.e., there usually are some triggering factors, but they (at least to my knowledge) can't be predicted.

And I have (and nobody has) nowhere said that it's a biological disease as flu, but the biological (including genetic) state of the person is responsible for the potential of the manifestation of schizophrenia.

I'm no doctor, but at least I'm having a course in diagnostic psychiatry and have done field work in a psychiatric clinic, final exam next month.

Schizophrenia means that one personality has split into many smaller things and no one thing can control some other thing. Can usually be detected from observing inadequate reaction to outer events.

I think this is as easy of an explanation as it can get.
that is a subjective OPINION and not specific. Hence in reality, a host of differing 'symptoms' are classed 'schizophrenic' by the bio-shrink peopls which 'justifies' to then drug a 'disease'. don't think they dont class it as a biological disease. they DO. otherwise they couldn't 'medicate' it

There is evidence that it's at least partly biological, i.e., it runs in the family.

me))that is lik saying that artistic abilities is 'biological'....wh really it is capacity and influence

If both mother and father are schizophrenic, then there is a 50% chance that the child will become one too, if one parent, then the chance was drastically smaller, I think it was only some 5%.

But the disorder isn't inherited as such, rather the mechanism is. It is dormant and remains dormant if isn't triggered. If that mechanism is started depends on the life experiences of the child, i.e., there usually are some triggering factors, but they (at least to my knowledge) can't be predicted.

me))))lok at terminology your shrink-book uses. showing its materialistic bis it claims a 'mechanism' i set to 'trigger' 'schizophrenia'. ie., they are claiming it is some disease, instead of a natrual healing process which it is, which some peple are mor susceptble to

And I have (and nobody has) nowhere said that it's a biological disease as flu, but the biological (including genetic) state of the person is responsible for the potential of the manifestation of schizophrenia.
that's just another way of claiming it is biological disease'virus. a sneaky way is all

Think what you want really, I wrote that for the psychically well, but uninformed members of this forum or else you'd be their only source of information in this.

I know your psychic problems and didn't even try to reason with you. I've talked with plenty of simmilar people during my field work so I know where reasoning is useless.

Think what you want really, I wrote that for the psychically well, but uninformed members of this forum or else you'd be their only source of information in this.

me))))loo kid. you arein uni. and are being indoctrinated with the rest.

I know your psychic problems and didn't even try to reason with you. I've talked with plenty of simmilar people during my field work so I know where reasoning is useless.
se. already you class me as having 'psychic problems' hich is meaningless drivel, and merely yur subjectve opinion about someone ho wont buy yor nonesense. ts is how it works. tose that shown disent via what ever means are classed 'mentall ill' 'psychic problems' 'crazy' 'woo woo' 'whacko' 'freak' etc. IS is the reality. not your explanation from some shrink text book with offical agenda of the STATE!

GO READ ABOUT SOVIET UNION AND MENTAL ILLNESS!..sugest to prof next lesson o devots a whole class to that> you@ll lear much more than the propaganda your learnin at present

I know all about the soviet practices, the prof. already told us about that. Naturally she was in the business too.

By the way, many political dissidents and not friendly to regime artists when arrested asked and begged the doctors for them to be put in a psychiatric clinic back then, because there they would spend about 4 years and then be released, but if not, then they would have been tried and sent to Siberia salt mines for 25 years or more.

I know all about the soviet practices, the prof. already told us about that. Naturally she was in the business too.

meeee)))))well if knowing about soviet russian experience doesn't sheput 2 and 2 togther. does she mentionabout Thomas Szasz, or other alernative voices exposing mental health establishment...?

By the way, many political dissidents and not friendly to regime artists when arrested asked and begged the doctors for them to be put in a psychiatric clinic back then, because there they would spend about 4 years and then be released, but if not, then they would have been tried and sent to Siberia salt mines for 25 years or more.
how awful!!! to have no other choice but between shrink ward and SIBERIA>>>>!

Besides labelling political dissents mad were not doctor's orders, but communist party's orders, i.e., they were not medical reasons at all, i.e., everyone that was against communism was mad.
That's the reason why the prosecuted people could ask for a psychiatric commission to evaluate their state of mind in the first place.

Besides labelling political dissents mad were not doctor's orders, but communist party's orders, i.e., they were not medical reasons at all, i.e., everyone that was against communism was mad.
That's the reason why the prosecuted people could ask for a psychiatric commission to evaluate their state of mind in the first place.
but SEE it is STATE AND PSYCHIATRY workng togther> that is the point!

That was the point in the USSR, it's not the point in nowaday Latvia.
I don't know for other countries.

That was the point in the USSR, it's not the point in nowaday Latvia.
I don't know for other countries.

"Psychistric drug misused in Uzbekistan, NY Times 10/21/05: HUMAN Rights Watch says Uzbekistan is everting to "Stalinist-era tactics" in ordering political activiast elena Urlayeva arrrested and tyo begin receiving treatment with powerful psychotropic drugs today. This is an insidious attempt to equate criicism of the government with insanity", said Holly Cartner< a regional director of HRW."

forefinger and little finger representing satanic worship? maybe used to , not anymore lol

forefinger and little finger representing satanic worship? maybe used to , not anymore lol
How do you know this? one sentence wont do it?

How do you know this? one sentence wont do it?
As I mentioned many pages ago - go to any rock band or music festival. Every second kid up the front is doing it. It has meanings that have nothing to do with satan.

Avatar, I'm not sure I agree with your definition regarding split personalities - I was under the impression that hallucinations were the defining feature of schizophrenia.

For most people (although i'm not talking from experience) schizophrenia ruins their quality of life, and is not something that is merely caused by psychological factors, circumstance, or certain behaviours.

Also someone should mention that in some people dormat psychosis can sometimes be triggered/exacerbated by cannabis and other psychadelic drugs, and also chronic use of amphetamines.

I think the words psychiatric or psychological are preferable to the word "psychic" when discussing mental illness these days.

As I mentioned many pages ago - go to any rock band or music festival. Every second kid up the front is doing it. It has meanings that have nothing to do with satan.

As clearly seen a few months ago at Battle Metal Night in Riga, Latvia

http://truemetal.lv/gallery/image/7463/

Duendy, see the evil satanists, the devil worshippers! Oh, and the hypnosis machine!!

p.s. I'm enjoying this

Avatar, I'm not sure I agree with your definition regarding split personalities - I was under the impression that hallucinations were the defining feature of schizophrenia.

For most people (although i'm not talking from experience) schizophrenia ruins their quality of life, and is not something that is merely caused by psychological factors, circumstance, or certain behaviours.

Also someone should mention that in some people dormat psychosis can sometimes be triggered/exacerbated by cannabis and other psychadelic drugs, and also chronic use of amphetamines.

I think the words psychiatric or psychological are preferable to the word "psychic" when discussing mental illness these days.
Huwy, I have to go to an exam now, but I will reply to you later.
There's an exact list of psychic disorders that have to be diagnosed first in order to diagnose schizophrenia, i.e., they make up schizophrenia.

About cause - there is no one cause, it's partly genetic, partly psyhic.

As I mentioned many pages ago - go to any rock band or music festival. Every second kid up the front is doing it. It has meanings that have nothing to do with satan.
hey shaman...beieve it or not i missed ya. dont know how long it'll laaaast...
had your trip yet?

regarding your reponse: so what Do they mean when they do that sign. ie., the people at these horrendous 'rock' concerts??

hey shaman...beieve it or not i missed ya. dont know how long it'll laaaast...
had your trip yet?

regarding your reponse: so what Do they mean when they do that sign. ie., the people at these horrendous 'rock' concerts??
haha. I suspect it wont last long.

I had a little bit of lsd a couple of weekends ago. It is not the setting for the type of experience you are used to as we were watching bands and drinking at a music festival. In these situations we laugh like we are seven years old again. So no it was not a partiularly psychedelic experience. I will be taking more over the new years weekend.

I see that sign at most rock bands nowadays not just metal bands. It has come to mean something else to many. It certainly may have come from satanic beginnings I don't know.

From the wikipedia link I posted once- "The gesture has since spread beyond metal to all forms of rock music, and it is now nearly ubiquitous. In rock situations the gesture is interpreted as a benign gesture for "Rock on.""

haha. I suspect it wont last long.

me)))it's finished!!...HOHOHO

I had a little bit of lsd a couple of weekends ago. It is not the setting for the type of experience you are used to as we were watching bands and drinking at a music festival. In these situations we laugh like we are seven years old again. So no it was not a partiularly psychedelic experience. I will be taking more over the new years weekend.

me)))nuthin wrong in having fun

I see that sign at most rock bands nowadays not just metal bands. It has come to mean something else to many. It certainly may have come from satanic beginnings I don't know.

From the wikipedia link I posted once- "The gesture has since spread beyond metal to all forms of rock music, and it is now nearly ubiquitous. In rock situations the gesture is interpreted as a benign gesture for "Rock on.""

yeah but , we are trying to understand what it MEANS for them youth/etc using it now. do you or anyone know?

Horned deities and horns themselves originally represented masculine qualities such as virility, speed and strength. Horns are also hollow like the womb thus they has associations with feminine aspects of divinity such as fertility, intuition, grace and maternal generosity. The age-old title for male sexual prowess ‘Horny’ of course arises from the lustful nature of Horned Gods. The early, sexually repressed Christian Church seems to have had little trouble in demonizing ancient horned deities like the Greek Pan and Celtic Cernunnos into twisted representations of the ‘Devil Incarnate!’

is this what you want ?

Horned deities and horns themselves originally represented masculine qualities such as virility, speed and strength. Horns are also hollow like the womb thus they has associations with feminine aspects of divinity such as fertility, intuition, grace and maternal generosity. The age-old title for male sexual prowess ‘Horny’ of course arises from the lustful nature of Horned Gods. The early, sexually repressed Christian Church seems to have had little trouble in demonizing ancient horned deities like the Greek Pan and Celtic Cernunnos into twisted representations of the ‘Devil Incarnate!’

is this what you want ?
Yes i m a bit familiar with all that. also the Horned god Son of the Goddess...of course, which very much represents fetility aspect of Nature and psychedelic phallic mushroom.......

but where i tink rthe Death metal peopleand Illuminati people go wrong is that the dont recognize the Goddess at all. hence their takeof this horned god beit conscious or unconscious is vitally missing the Feminine erotic GROUNDING ingredient. hence with much D,metal you havethe utter violent disrespect for woman and with the lluminati, same and their need to order all of Nature and people to

hi duendy!

hi duendy!
TALK of the Devil....!!hehe

and psychedelic phallic mushroom.......

Where did that come from?

Where did that come from?
The Earth

beavis and butthead were making that symbol back in the 90s

Hail Satan